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In Reply to: eBay transaction... posted by AAG on March 26, 2006 at 14:31:57:
...because 1. Rarely are all the facts objectively presented by either party. 2. You'll not always get the sympathy you expect.Most know that buying tubes on ebay can be risky, esp if the tubes will be used in some critical app for which they weren't originally designed (6DJ8/6922 and so on). Now you do too. Many are willing to take the risk because the reward can be great. Fortunately, there are tube professionals such as Upscale Audio and Jim McShane (and many others) for those who don't want the risk or can't deal with the occasional dissapointment of ebay or agon. The professionals usually stand behind their products and their return policies are stated in the open. They can also select tubes for your critical app.
Too bad you've left neg fdbk because that pretty much seals your fate on this transaction.
Follow Ups:
You presume that I am 1. Trying to gain sympathy and 2. Trying to resolve an issueNeither of these is the case. Since both parties in the transaction remain anonymous, there is no vindication on my part just as there is no trashing of anyone's rep. And the simple fact that there couldn't possibly be any resolution on AA for an eBay transaction is plainly apparent.
What I am exploring here...via this forum, is if there is an Implied Warranty of Merchantability in regards to tube sales on eBay. It's a simple contract law issue.
Now, an interesting question in that regard would be - were there any disclaimers of "as-is" in the auction or a statement of "no warranty"...which would negate the issue of Merchantability. However, this was not the case.
In this light, I feel that it is in fact an appropriate topic and rises above the level of simple whining.
In fact it could be of interest to anyone who purchases or sells tubes at auction.
The central question is whether there is an implied warranty against a tube being noisy or microphonic in this context under the heading of Merchantability...not whether I was ripped off or not or by whom.
And I disagree that negative feedback has sealed the fate of the transaction. It is an ancillary concern in the dispute process.
...the problem here as I see it is that there still isn't enough info supplied to provide anything more than a partially informed opinion. This is especially so when you state "The central question is whether there is an implied warranty against a tube being noisy or microphonic in this context under the heading of Merchantability..." Sounds like you expect a very specific remedy for which specific info will be required to make a fair judgement.Examples of missing info:
1. What tube type are you discussing here? I assume it's a 6922/6DJ8 type but I could be wrong. The 6DJ8 tube was originally designed for cascode VHF rf service, not audio. Therefore, audio characteristics such as microphonics were of lesser importance than rf characteristics such as low interelectode capacitance. Will a 6DJ8 perform satisfactorily as an audio amp? Certainly it will but you may have to select for audio characteristics like low microphonics. Since you state that the seller made no mention of microphonics one way or the other, if this is a 6DJ8, I'd expect proper performance in the front end of a tuner but not necessarily in the front end of a phono preamp. If the tube was a 12AX7 my expectations would be quite different.
2. Just what did the seller state in the auction description? Was it just a 6DJ8 that tested good on some Hickok or did he state that it would be an ideal tube for use in a critical audio preamp front end?
3. I assume this was an ebay auction because you mention feedback and ebay is ubiqitous but I could be wrong. If ebay, how about an auction # or link so we can see for ourselves what happened?
4. If ebay, did you try resolving thru their resources? Yeah, I know, that's not rewarding either because ebay is seller oriented but sometimes it works.
5. Did you use paypal? Did you try to resolve thru them? Paypal seems to frequently side with the buyer if you can convince them that misrepresentation was involved.
6. etc.My opinion is that when one starts using phrases like "...implied warranty against a tube being noisy or microphonic in this context under the heading of Merchantability..." to describe the expectations of an ebay auction conducted by a non-professional (yes, I'm being presumptive again but there's little else to go on at this point) I believe one is being unrealistic as regards rf tubes mfgd decades ago (another presumption) for critical audio apps in modern equip (yet another presumption). IOW, I believe when purchasing tubes on ebay, there is no implied warranty for special tube characteristics important in apps for which the tube was not originally designed. If special characteristics are important they should be stated outright in the auction description in which case they're no longer implied or you should ask the appropriate questions before bidding.
As a parting comment, I've purchased lots of tubes at auction (fortunately I've no need for 6DJ8s) and most transactions have been trouble free. The few disappointments were ultimately worked out with the seller w/o need for neg fdbk or outside intervention. I trust you'll ultimately end up there too.
Please understand that my questions are academic...not necessarily seeking a remedy or sympathy which you at first surmised. I am unclear as to what specific remedy you could possibly offer besides a discussion about whether there is a warranty issue anyway ;)Not trying to pick a fight. Just saying I am not looking for sympathy or judgement...just discussion.
1. The tubes are 5814A.
2. The tubes were advertised, specifically, as "preamp tubes" in the header for the auction.
3. Yes, it was eBay. I stated this in my original post. However, this would cross the line in calling out the seller, right?
4. Yes, I filed a dispute. The seller hasn't responded yet though. So, still pending.
5. No, unfortunately, seller accepts money order only.
And your final statement is exactly the type of feedback I was seeking. Is it reasonable? It seems that there are differing levels of expectation from a warranty standpoint whether the seller is an eBay seller as opposed to a more 'standard' business. If I purchased the tubes from a boutique seller, it would be one thing...from eBay another. I just find it curious and intriguing. If the same tubes were purchased from a more traditional merchant...well, what of it you know? It's an old tube, not meant for critical apps, etc, etc. and your expectations are out of line. I guess I am just trying to understand the difference and find out why there is that difference. Is it because eBay sellers are presumed to be not "professional" tube sellers? And what constitutes professional. That they make their living from it? Expertise? Volume?
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