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In Reply to: Looking for 12au7 for my cary SLP94 posted by nuklp on September 28, 2004 at 11:16:39:
nuklp,I don't know the Cary so comments are a bit general.
I would second both of JamesV's suggestions. The Siemens E82CC was sold under several labels. I'm assuming he means the older triple mica Siemens & Halske and was sold under several designations. There were Siemens 5814As but also these could be Philips SQ 5814As, Siemens ECC802S, or Valvo E82CC. There is a later Siemens E82CC- sold also as Valvo E82CC and these are two mica tubes- not of the same quality of the triple mica ones- but still quite nice. The Siemens is what I would call a "fast" tube" very dynamic and lively, somewhat forward.
The Amperex 7316 is a tube I've only heard once- but that was enough- it really is good! I'm told that there are several versions of the 7316 and the earlier ones are nicer.
The Amperex Bugle Boy ECC82 is a tube that seems to work well everywhere I try it- it does everything well! Don't discount too ECC82s labelled by HP as these are usually Amperex made and to me- indistinguishable from the Bugle Boys- and will be half the price. I have several 12AU7s from Philips- Valvos especially, and I can not tell these tubes apart from Bugle Boys in construction.
I'm a big fan of the 5814A and recently enjoyed trying out a pair of 1956 CBS- black plate, louvered stirrup getter- fantastic really.
One model you mentined is the RCA "cleartop". I ended up with (11!) of these and I like these very much in my old McIntosh stuff where the slightly bright nature livens things up a bit. This is a characteristic of the Siemens 5814A also- punchy and fast. However, this may or may not be a good combination with the Cary.
I have several Telefunkens in vintage gear- McIntosh, Fisher and Scott and these are fine, and these are very neutral, but I seem to yearn for a little more agressiveness and these spots will become Siemens or Amperex.
Without knowing the Cary, I would say you couldn't go wrong with a good Philips made ECC82 or the special Amperex 7316- if you can find them! if you wna tto tubne the sound a little "otter", then the Siemens 5814A or the RCAs.
Sorry, nit enough experience with Mullard to comment, but I hear the old long plate 50's ones are very nice.
Cheers,
Bambi B
12AU7s AT HOME:
Use 5: 1, 2, 2
Philips SQ/ Siemens 5814A -3 mica- NOS
Brimar cleartop- NOS
Sylvania JHS 12AU7WA- 6189- NOS 66
HP/ Amperex-Holland- NOS
HP/ RCA- cleartop- NOS
RCA- 5814A- black plate 2 mica- NOS
RCA/Textronix matched pairs cleartop NOS
Valvo/ Philips ECC82- dimpled disc-Holland -NOS
Valvo/ Siemens E82CC- NOS < this is the later two mica
CBS 5814A- JHS blk plate- stirrup gtr- NOS 56
RCA cleartop- USED
Follow Ups:
Thank you BombiA question...What is the different between Amperex BB long plate and short plate in term of sound quality?
nuklp,I've not had the good fortune to own the long plate Amperex BB ECC82, but by reputation they are supposed to be very refined and a bit smoother than the short plate. If so, they must be great as the ordinary BB is wonderful. You might try a search on this site concerning the long-plate version- it's been discussed from time to time here.
I think if the long plate version comes along at a reasonable price it should be very nice! Still, in the upper end of Amperex, the older 7316 seems worth stretching a little for.
The problem with the tube world is that ignorance is bliss. If we didn't hear- or hear about- the great models of NOS tubes- Telefunken ECC803S, Mullard 10M, Amperex pinched waist 6922, GEC KT66, Siemens CCA, Valvo Blue 6201, and etc. and didn't know what we were missing- there would be great cost savings!
Cheers,
actually a SLP 2002, the Amperex/Bugle Boy 7316s were the best. Oddly enough, the Mullard CV 4003s were almost as good, and wayyyyy cheaper. I recently bought some 7316s that were labled "HP" from SED Tube sales at vacuumtubes.com for $175/matched pair. Upscale Audio sells very select Mullard CV 4003s for much less.
"" actually a SLP 2002, the Amperex/Bugle Boy 7316s were the best. Oddly enough, the Mullard CV 4003s were almost as good, and wayyyyy cheaper. I recently bought some 7316s that were labled "HP" from SED Tube sales at vacuumtubes.com for $175/matched pair. Upscale Audio sells very select Mullard CV 4003s for much less.""
Funny thing on this forum that when someone has a really rare tube...like a Mullard 10M, or a CBS 7730...it has to be way better because it is so rare.Not once do I see someone take a real rare tube and say it sucks. The Amperex pinched waist 6922 is without peers the worst testing 6922 outside of the Sylvania. They are most difficult to keep quiet in a preamp, but both of them work fine in a buffer position like the Ah! Njoe Tjoeb.
I noticed this when I spplied some tubes to a magazine for a comparison. When I told them what I was sending, I commented on certain ones that I was just sending them for fun, and to not have people even bother looking for them, they are so rare. Guess which ones were the best sounding. The ones you can't get.
So I think it is psychological. But people have to look at who was buying these tubes in the 60's and 70's. If a company making tubes did not make many...it may be because they weren't selling, either because they were not a competetive product, or had bad distribution and did not create sales.
It's no different than any other product. "Yugo" brand cars did not sell because they are crap. You don't see people fawning over them because they are rare. A 1958 Ferrari Testarossa is wonderful, rare, and expensive...but hardly usable as a car for most people.
They are expensive because of collector value
KavinIn your opinion..What is the best buy 12au7 for the cary? Mullard cv40003?
Kevin Deal,I'm glad to read of someone else that subscribes to the two reasns for rarity- the thing was great and few were made because of the effort and expense to make it great OR it was so terrible few bought them and even fewer were maintained.
But your additional psychological aspect- that people will rate somrthing better if it is introduced as "rare" is an important addition.
I'm certain this has to do with the mass-produced world today. I don't think there was ever an age before the 20th C. in which old things were worth so substantially more than new. Someone might think of the very high prices of Titians or Raphaels in the later 18th C., but I'll wager a new Joshua Reynolds was close in value. I think the most expensive paintings in history relative to the value of money were Alma-Tademas that when new in 1890 cost $100,000. And simlutaneously, Van Gogh was giving paintings away for another shot of absinthe.
As for tubes, like paintings, the appreciation is more on a subjective basis. I certainly am not thinking about measurements when listening compared to the aspects of sound. And the introduction of "rare' or "expensive" or "acclaimed" will also certianly influence opinion. But, those of us who tend towards iconclasm though may react by trying to debunk fancy reputations!
Did you know that early Blazmo square-rigger, corrugated blue-plate special, pregnant-waist "Trumpet Lad" ECC8003SSTs are astoundingly better than the very common Telefunken ECC803S? Apparently only virgins were allowed to do the welding. But- try and find them at any price!
I, hHowever, have 100 for sale if anyone's interested..
Cheers,
Hi Kevin and Bambi B you are wright...Here is example of rare and pricy 12au7 tubes which I dont like in my pre
1. Philips-Holand 1955, long plate, foil getter 12au7
competent but litle to clinical, dry sound, unbalanced top
2. Telefunken small logo ecc802s
not magical at all, detailed and extended, very HI-FI
3. Brimar side getter, clear top ecc82
rich tone, warm mid with coloration, maybe to much bloom across the spectrum
4. Valvo ecc186, code Ct5, small O-getter, short plate
uninvolvong, not so musical but detailed
5. Pearl Cryo CBS JHY-5814A, 1956 black plate, copper grid, square getter
not nearly good as Raytheon 5814 - 1952
6. Siemens Munich made 1956 long plate, D - getter
litle cold and clinical sound, poor bass, bright topHere is example of rare and pricy tubes which I like in my pre
1. Valvo Hamburg 1955 foil getter long plate ECC82 - most musical, smooth, magical mid, rounded and airy.
2. Valvo mid 60s 6067 - most neutral and balanced, great soundstage, ultra transparent and refined, magic in top, very unique in family
3. Siemens early 60s silver plate ecc82 - clear, nice and litle coloration in mid, detailed, very extended top
4. Mullard 1956 sguare getter long plate ecc82 - very warm and rounded, little too soft, smooth top
5. Ratheon 1952 black plate sguare getter 5814 - dynamic, rounded, musical, good bass, involving, not transparent as some
Milos from Serbia
You want pre 1980s CV4003s if possible.
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