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In Reply to: Tube rolling with VAC pre posted by js21 on September 10, 2003 at 18:13:02:
I also have the Standard Pre LE w/MM phono stage. I've tried a few different tubes before finally spending decent money on some early 80's Mullard CV4003 and CV4004 in the main preamp section. I've heard some controversy in a recent post about if these really are Mullards or if they really do have that Mullard sound from the early 50's? I think they sound very nice in my preamp.....neutral, well balanced and pretty darn 3D in soundstaging. The midrange is excellent and I've got no complaints.I went with a pair of early 70's RCA clear tops in the phono section. These were impressive in their ability to flesh out detail and yet still seem warm and laidback.
Follow Ups:
In this business, people want to sound like they know something. So this happens a couple ways in an effort to impress.The more people can add to a name, in a effort to sound educated,the better the tube must be. Especially if the tube is rare (due to age, low production, whatever) and expensive.
I speak the truth when I talk to people. Eaxmple is the Mullard 10M 12AX7, or maybe EL-34. I have both in stock. If a guy asks me if they are worth it, I will not bullshit him in an effort to squeeze him for more money. I tell him to buy them because he wants them. Don't expect too much. The price is based on being collectible and rare. Nothing more.
Examples? Let's look at the most famous.
Sylvania 6SN7W Metal Base- I have had a number of these. Most are marginal for noise. Only one EVER was half way low in microphony. They test worse than any 6SN7GT I have seen.
Early Mullard 12AT7 - The early folded plate type. It is not a matter of if they are noisy...but when. I have had the heartbreak of buying a qty of Bugle Boys (the same tube was made in England, France, and Holland) and having them all suck. The later CV4024 trounces them in every way, shape, and form. For much cheaper. And last. I recently had a chnace to buy a stash of early ones labeled Valvo. They were fresh and perfect...and the price is right because there was a nice whack. My heart went pitter patter. But I passed because they SUCKED. Someone else is selling them though. For good bucks because they are "older".
Amperex Pinched Waist 6922 - Nothing tests as bad as these. A guy writes a tube lore using them as a buffer...where they don't have a tough life...and they take off. Right before all this stuff started I had found 100 pieces in perfect boxes. Out of there....maybe 10 were SOMEWHAT low in microphony. 50 were so bad they howled. I sent them back. I could have sold them for big $$$$. Dumb move.
Are early ones better? In some cases maybe so. I like the earliest Telefunken 12AX7, with ribbed plate...but the "experts" are so friggin mis-informed they will tell you the early ones are smooth plates in published reports. Makes you wonder, doesn't it?
There are no tru-isms. No blanket statements. Every type from any company must be evaluated, and then you have to ask if they work well in YOUR preamp.
I will come up with a fake screen name and started talking up the ultra rare "Triple Ripple Butt Plug RCA 5751 with fractured mica"
Repeat it three times. Then before you know it someone will ask me for it.
Don't let them get you down. With so many circuits and so many variables, one almost has to speak in very general terms when talking about tube types.Now I finally have to throw my metal base Ws and Pinched Waists in, just to see how noisy they actually are.
Chris
It's like that with cars too. It would be a great thread. Tnanks Chris...And it does not get me down...but does bug me. People want to act superior. It's a fear driven emotion. I can get a smack of that too.
Tommytube,
Thanks. I think I spoke to you a few weeks back to ask you about the VAC pre. I called Kevin from upscale audio and he suggested the same tubes for me. I should get them early next week.Thanks again,
Jose.
> I called Kevin from upscale audio and he suggested the same tubes for me.Because I'm sure that he doesn't pay more than $1 each for them. If that much. :-)
Gerry
I don't think people get your joke. If I don't sell another one in the next year.. I could not care less. I am trying to preserve my stock of those specifically.People that are truly educated know that the Mullard CV4004 is maybe the best made 12AX7 type ever. Mullard CV4003 is the only 12AU7, outside the not too great sounding RFT, that really holds up in certain CJ preamps.
I just returned from a European tube hunting trip lasting almost three weeks. Know how many 12AX7 I brought back? Zero. But since you have a source for $1, I gotta deal for you.
You buy them, and I will pay you 20 times your price right now, and will take $100,000 worth. You make $80,000 quick! Deal? I'll wait here for the answer.
And your point is......
Definately more than a step up from the stock tubes. At first it seemed that they were a little too laid back or even "dark" sounding IMS but detail is all there and it's actually the improved depth that I'm now experiencing. The stock tubes were more of an "in your face" presentation. Most significant of all is the bass. Much tighter and deeper and it's obvious from the very first hour. Soundstaging, as tommytube first stated is "pretty darn 3D" and the midrange is to die for.Thanks to tommytube and also Kevin from Upscale Audio.
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