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In Reply to: Re: Foil Getter 12AU7/ECC82 - Does anyone have a picture? posted by tvr2500m on September 08, 2003 at 14:52:59:
Well, Fatbottle doesn't miss an opportunity to repeat his opinion on the 12AU7 ad nauseum. One wishes he would take up a new and more important crusade, but whatever.The "foil getter" 12AU7 was only made by Valvo in the Hamburg factory, and is the first 12AU7 made in Europe - no other Philips plant was making a 12AU7 yet, nor was Siemens. So that makes it rare and unique.
It would be worth nothing if it didn't sound good, though. Being a true Hamburg Valvo is the first good thing about it - that plant beat the crap out of anything Telefunken, or any other Philips plant ever made, and people who really know tubes revere the Hamburg Valvo plant. Second good thing is that it's the first version - always a good thing, the first tube always had all the R&D money in it, later versions as a general rule offered revisions for cost and simplification of manufacture, not usually sonics (although sometimes for microphonics reduction).
But the tube is one hell of a sweet sounding bottle. Think of the general sonic signature of a good Amperex 7316 (the late 50's D-getter one, NOT the later small O-getter ones) - airy, sweet highs and a nice, open sound with a touch of warmth and euphonics to the mids - then add in a very golden, woody tone and a very fine sense of pace/rhythm, and you get the foil getter.
If you figure that an Amperex 7316 goes for an easy $150 to $200 a pair, the ECC802S goes for an easy $250 to $300 a pair, and the Raytheon 7730 can go for minimum $150 a pair - all fine tubes, but obtainable, which the foil getter is not - you get to the price of the foil getter.
Follow Ups:
It's not a crusade , it's a matter of personal opinion which was clearly stated . Are personal opinions not valid here ? (and like I said I tried a lot of different types) $250 for a pair of 'general purpose oscillator/amplifier' double triodes designed for use within TV sets ????? Go figure if it's value for money or not . The holy grail of 12AU7 wouldn't even get close to a modest 6SN7 !...FB
...FB
I don't want to be "disin" anybody, but hey fatbottle dude, isn't the 6SN7 also a TV tube? Vertical hold i belive...My pre has 12AU7's and my power amps have 6SN7's, i think they both have merits and flaws, but one killing the other? I don't know bro....
I don't know about the 6SN7's humble origins but to me they sound soooooo much better . All personal choice really , if the 12AU7 is your bag then fair enough . I just find the things to sound coloured and 'tubey' , nice if you're stoned off your head but not for me
...FB
In general terms, the virtues of a 12AU7 is not in what it may add, but what it does not destroy.
erus
Who cares about the "origins" of a tube? Every tube had "humble" origins, in their heyday, they were as common and expensive as a cheap lightbulb. The 300B was a theater tube, the EL34 was a cheap alternative to the 6L6 for guitar amps, the 45 was a dime a dozen tube for table radios, the 6SN7 was primarily used in PA systems. Most of the NOS stock we have around today was intended to kill people. So what.Personally, I would agree that the 6SN7 is a better sounding tube than the 12AU7 in general. Not to say that there aren't terrible sounding applications of the 6SN7 and great 12AU7 apps. One thing I have learned in life is that making hard, closed-ended generalizations just leaves you open to be humilated when the exceptions disprove the rule.
"Nice if you're stoned off your head" would certainly point me towards the 12AU7, though, sounds like exactly the right attribute.
I wish more people around here would think before opining.
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