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Was just looking at three different batches of Telefunken 12AX7's I have. One type is used and labelled "Dynaco"; the other type is labelled "Telefunken (the diamond logo), 12AX7/ECC83, Made in West-Germany", date coded "FL" and are pulls from a Harmon Kardon amp; the third are NOS Telefunken "Selected" tubes w/ the tips of the envelope painted orange-red and a "Selected" cloth sticker on each tube, these are labelled "Telefunken (diamond logo, slightly smaller than the other), Made in Western Germany, ECC83/12AX7" w/ date code "BRC01Wa". The first two types look indentical, but the third type has small differences in the plate from the first two. Also, the third type has four barely noticeable crimps in the tops of the tubes, so subtle that I just noticed them tonight and I've had them for months. I've never heard of TF 12AX7's w/ crimps in the tops, they have the diamond and say "Made in Western Germany"-- are these counterfeit? Or are they just made at a different factory or at a different time?
Follow Ups:
8eyed,I have smooth plates which have extensions of each anode edge passing through the top mica spacer. They are straight.
I also have a couple of stamped plates with the same extension through the mica & are bend over. The one which attaches to the getter ring is not bent.
Is this what you are talking about? BTW---all "diamonds" are the same size.
The ones labeled ECC83 say "Made in Germany" only. The ones labeled 12AX7/ECC83 say "Made in Western Germany."
The diamonds on the bottom are the same size, it's the printed Telefunken diamond logo that's a little smaller on the NOS tubes. The only real difference in the plates (smooth) are the 8 little holes (vents?), which are spaced differently then on the plates in the other tubes. That, and the faint seams (at 90 degree angles) in the top of the tubes... They're probably real Telefunkens, I suppose it's kinda weird to think they could be something else-- the diamonds are at the bottom of the tubes...
You can find more counterfeit Telefunken tubes than real Telefunken tubes,specially types like ECC.
My uncle worked at Telefunken-Ulm in the design and research laboratories for tubes.
Diamond-tubes were made in GDR,Jugoslavia for account of Telefunken-Ulm after 1964.All tools for making bottom and glas-envelopes were sent to ISKRA -Ljubljana-Slovenija(joint Venture Telefunken-Siemens plant) and to RFT-Mühlhausen.
There were more than 25 subcontractors who built the tools for the bottom of these tubes(Telefunken never built these fabbrication tools).
Telefunken-diamond tubes here in Germany and Italy are really hard to find.If they are really made by Telefunken,you can approove only with the apposite fabbrication and transport documents.
If you want some originals:sent them to me,I have the original tools to label them,made by Telefunken.
Ánd I know a guy at EI,who is responsable for the Glas-tools,he has more than 15 -diamond pressed bottom tools at his disposal.(ISKRA sent all tools to EI in Serbia 1984).So if you want a real diamond-pressed bottom ECC with original label numbers,no problem!There is really a 99,9% of B...sh...t Telefunken ECC available today,my friend calculated,that there are more ECC on the market,than ever produced by Telefunken-Ulm.
In Germany,production of these tubes were very small,most of them were used in radio studios or by militarys.
ECC803s were produced and labeled for Telefunken by Philips-Hamburg(Valvo),SEL(than ITT-Lorenz)and by Philips-Eindhoven.
They all come together(not labeled)in the main magazine of Siemens,located nearby Nürnberg.
They were labeled and sold,if there was a request or big order.
After 1964 it was too care,producing tubes in germany,they changed over for solid state production.
All tools and machinery were going to GDR and Jugoslavia.So today,here in Germany and Italy,we were laughing about,which prices you can get for original Telefunken,never produced by Telefunken.
There are unfortunately a lot of guys who made a lot of money with counterfeit ECC´s specially at ebay.
The form of plates,colour,getter and so on,is another argument of bu..sh...t,the ECC803s were produced in every form,depends only to fabbrication tools,disposal at the moment in production.
Excuse me,but I have to write it down,following the announces everywhere,it´s a mess,but there are a lot of tube-enthusiasts,who believes in these mystic ECC´s,and they got only b...sh..t.
Ciao Volker
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