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Audiophile Electro's: Os-Con v. BG v. Muse v. Pana?

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spindrifter

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Hi once again
Yes, I fully realize this topic has been covered previously elsewhere, but I have a slightly different angle. OK?
Context is short-signal-path phono signal circuit using (2 stage) op-amps (4 in total), each stage shored-up by 4 x 100uF 25V Jamicon electro's and 4 x .47uF 63V Wima film caps. With low-signal allied to high amplification ratio (and many other variables, agreed), what brand/type of superior audio-grade electro would you recommend for best DC supply and why? In your experience what general sonic flavour does each impart? TIA.
spindrifter

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Audiophile Electro's=Army Intelligence=Jumbo Shrimp=Hardworking Professor NT - EZ_Angus 14:12:06 03/26/07 (6)
nt baby nt
- Oxymorons Galore! Wow, all electro's suck, is that it? - spindrifter 14:37:09 03/26/07 (5)
  Thanks EZ Angus
  Your cryptic advice is well taken. Certainly avoid caps wherever possible! And in a perfect electronics world we could forget that electro's ever happened! :-)
  But those little cans are found profusely in the strangest of places e.g., power supplies, cathode by-passes, digital circuits etc etc, that all ultimately contribute to audio quality. I do not subscribe to your flat earth rationale that all electro's sound the same.
  My question was an earnest one. Would anyone like to provide an opinion on brands and types? Are there profound sonic differences? Anyone out there with a valid opinion based upon actual listening?
  spindrifter
  - Re: Oxymorons Galore! Wow, all electro's suck, is that it? - Gingertube 20:34:22 03/27/07 (4)
    Limited experience BUT I have used OSCONs and Blackgates.
    OSCONs - Good for power supply rail caps. They have one really bad characteristic. They have zero overvoltage tolerance and they blow short. I had a nasty experience when using them as cathode bypasses in a cathode bias EL84 Push Pull Amp - caps blew and I suddenly had no bias and very orange tube anodes.
    BLACKGATES
    BG Standard - Good for power supply rail caps and for cathode bypasses etc. When used as a power supply cap to a SS diffamp frontend I found that putting a parallel Polyphenylene Sulphide (PPS) cap of 1/100th value still gave a noticable performance lift (top end).
    BG NX (Non Polarised) - good for signal coupling but very limited voltage rating.
    BG N - I tried these for the diffamp rail cap referenced above and did not feel that the extra money was worth it. In a lot of ways I preferred the BG Standard. On the other hand I have a 70W SS Power Amp which uses a bootsrapped VAS load and tha N was definitely superior to the Standard as a bootstrap cap (signal coupling). I also tried 2 off BG N "Super E" connected (reverse parallel)in the bootstrap duty and could'nt notice any improvement over a single N of twice the value.
    BG FK and PK - Ive used these as cathode bypasses and also as a Vbe multiplier bypass in a SS power amp. They were great in both cases.
    I also tried the "Muse" caps in the SS Amp as the bootstrap cap and they had a lovely sound (rich harmonic structure) BUT their noise level was really noticable compared to any of the BG solutions and I took them out.
    Also tried "Gold Tunes" but they did'nt come close to BG Standard.
    All my cathode bias tube amps use Blackgate Standards for bypasses. Ditto for Bias supply filters in fixed bias tube amps.
    Hope there is something of use amoungst these ramblings
    Cheers,
    Ian
    - Re: Oxymorons Galore! Wow, all electro's suck, is that it? - spindrifter 06:01:30 03/28/07 (3)
      Thanks Ian.
      Interested to learn of unplanned decommissioning issues with OS-CONs. So far I've been lucky. My main audio implementation is in a Stage 2 VSE Allen Wright output conversion of original SONY XB-940 SACD player, assessed before and after. The sonic improvement was startling over the originals (Nichicons?). I was pleasantly flabbergasted. A learned audio designer friend of mine swears by them. I guess one major limitation is higher voltage ratings are not offered.
      Limited experience with BGs. Others suggest longish running-in period, warm and open sonics, and perhaps not the last word in PRaT and frequency extension?
      spindrifter
      - Solid polymers - John Swenson 15:07:40 03/28/07 (2)
        
        In Reply to: Re: Oxymorons Galore! Wow, all electro's suck, is that it? posted by spindrifter on March 28, 2007 at 06:01:30:
        
        I use the United Chemi-Con solid polymers (similar to OSCONs) a lot in power supply use. They are not so great as audio coupling caps though. They are particularly great in digital circuits. I use them all over the place in my DACs.
        The low voltage is a definate problem, the wired ones go to 10V and the SMD to 16. Even with the 16 I've fried several.
        John S.
        
        Re: Solid polymers - spindrifter 17:13:01 03/28/07 (0)
        
        In Reply to: Solid polymers posted by John Swenson on March 28, 2007 at 15:07:40:
        
        Thanks John
        My (albeit limited) understanding of OS-CON chemistry is that Sanyo utilize an "organic salt". Maybe also a "solid polymer"? Whatever its DNA, agreed, OS-CONs and their ilk contribute positively to DC quality in digital circuits! I've ordered more OS-CONs, Panasonic FC and BG PK for my current phono stage project and will roll 'em over the next couple of months. Thanks for helpful contributions everyone!
        spindrifter
        
        What would you use for.... - Russ57 16:09:35 03/28/07 (0)
        
        In Reply to: Solid polymers posted by John Swenson on March 28, 2007 at 15:07:40:
        
        an active crossover? The PCB size dictates that I stay with electrolytics for coupling caps on the outputs from the op amps. Stock they are standard polarized 100uf/25vdc. Should I go with bi-polar caps???
        
        Russ

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