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I got an assortment of these for both Mœbius and the Machine, and I have to say that this is a serious cap. Very high information content, especially in regard to pop/rythym/pace and that stuff. Very addictive. But:Right now, I'm hearing what sounds to me like a bit of hotness in maybe the 10-15KHz range (I'd love to tell you '16-20KHz range', but I much doubt I can hear that high) that makes them sound a bit hissy.
Does this go away with break in? How long does it take? Ten thousand hours, like all excellent things? This is in an update for a buyer of an early Mœbius, and I got responsibility to deal with.
Mahalo Nui Loa,
Follow Ups:
Spring has sprung; now is the time when all boys thoughts turn to girls and cars and golf and the beach and beer and rock 'n roll and...building audio gear!I rather dig the Mundorf sound in my Mobius.
Are you speaking of moralized polypropylene caps in general or Solen/SCR in particular and are you putting Mundorf in the same class as Solin/SCR types? Are you saying that Solin/SCR and Mundorf are the same caps?Where does Auricaps fit into the equation?
Anytime I substituted an Auricap for a Solin, the sound improved markedly.
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Boo!
...transparency and detail to let you hear something else going on.They are our cap of choice now that we can't get the Siemens MKV's and topped ALL commercially available caps as of 4 years ago in a mega test an associate did.
They get better overall with burn-in, but I have never heard what you are talking about in 10 years of using them commercailly.
I didn't listen exhaustively yesterday, but I will when I get home from school. It could be the recordings, they were commercial jazz (Dori Caymmi, Rippingtons), and some of those are a little crispy on top. I'm pretty sure it isn't my rig, I know the pieces well (made most of them), and though they have faults, a rising response above 10K is not one of them.Mahalo,
...with the Solens to soften what I perceive as the Solen's edginess. I try to use about 50% of each, but probably adding some MRs to the Solens will help start to reduce the edginess.danlaudionut pointed us at the linked source of inexpensive MR caps; TY Dan.
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Tin-eared audiofool and obsessed landscape fotografer.
http://community.webshots.com/user/jeffreybehr
- http://www.surpluscenter.com/sort.asp?numrec=140&sort=1&search=capacitor&UID=2006120910140399 (Open in New Window)
DanL
I'm not dissing you Poinz, but I always have a bit of a chuckle when people talk about 1000+ hr run-in times for caps. A couple of hundred hours perhaps, but in most instances of super extended run in time I am sure the perceived effect is from other components altering their characteristics slowly with use (eg tubes losing transconductance and or drifting, or speakers running in mechanically), or even the owner becoming more accustomed to their sound. Just how it is possible to separate out the changing sound of a capacitor from a myriad of other variables over thousands of hours is a real puzzle to me.It almost seems to be a badge of honour among some audiophiles as to how long they can hear their caps breaking in, this being proferred as tangible evidence of the owner's golden eared status. In Black Gate circles, I am sure that failure to hear to continuing improvements over decades would risk permanent banishment from the clique.
Your asessment of the SCR tin caps is spot on. After a couple of hundred hours they will sound a bit more more civilised and the soundstage will open up some, but that basic characteristic of forwardness and speed you described will remain. If you really like the silky smoothness of a Mundorf Silver they might remain a bit too uncivilised for your ears (kinda like comparing a 15 yr old Jerry Lee Lewis to T-Bone Walker). However, looking at your website, I sense that there's still a teensy bit of the former lurking under the surface, so who knows!
Take care.
pm
I use black gates in my phono PSU. I thought them (the ones I used, not all of them) better than the metallised film caps I was using for ages, straight out of the box. I've never noticed them "going off", breaking in or some other thing any more or less than other stuff. Some parts need break in but I bet the bigger effect is the listener getting used to it.I've found the more natural the system has got, the less it needs to "break in" when I've been away for a while. I think this adjustment we make is an indicator not of how sensitive the system is but how sensitive we are and how far the system has drifted from what is "right" for us.
Gear needs warming up to sound at its best and I really don't see how any one component esp a capacitor can be seperated from the rest of it. The human condition is a way bigger factor IMHO. i.e. if you expect to hear the BGs going off, forming or whatever, you will. Peace of mind in the parts you use has a bigger influence than the reality IMHO.
I agree 100%!There are warm up effects, and some parts do get better with a (short) time of usage - but these 100's/1000's of hours spoken about is, IMO, us changing - not the parts.
Tubes and capacitors I can understand, but some people even talk about "breaking in" things like transformers, resistors, wire, cables, tube sockets, wall-plugs, you name it! I don't doubt they "hear" a difference over time but I feel sure it's all subjective, a case of self-adjustment, rather than a measurable change in the physical properties of the parts themselves.
Lowthers! Out of the box they are so bad you think about returning them and are cussing yourself for such a terrible purchase.
I was recommending these things about ten years ago, I don't know if you (or anyone else) were listening.The amp I built then is still going and it's still a bit bright, so maybe it takes more than 10,000 hours. The amp uses PP 211s which have a reputation for brightness so who knows.
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