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In Reply to: Re: What I do... posted by DaveInVA on February 15, 2007 at 10:50:01:
Thanks, Dave:I well remember those Tandberg decks. In fact, downstairs I have a 64 tubed deck and another play only deck made around 1961. I think it is a model 6, perhaps, without any electronics at all. You were supposed to plug it into the TAPE HEAD inputs on a Marantz 7 for use. No problem with that aspect, since I still own a bunch of old Model 7 preamps and some McIntosh C-22s. I guess the only problem these days is trying to obtain any spare parts, since Tandberg is completely out of the audio business, though they make computer drives and some hi-def stuff for pro TV these days.
I do not go after pre-recorded tapes of any kind on eBay, for the simple reason that I fear the discovery that they might be in bad condition. I am basically interested in discovering how good some can sound, which has been the BIG surprise of late.
However, I am not about to invest big chunks of change in this technology. It is merely a curiosity with me and I do own lots of fine gear on which to play them back, including my very own Ampex 350-2, 354, ATR-700, Tandberg TD-20-A and two nice ReVox A-77s. I hardly ever use these decks, except the one ReVox A-77 Mark III, which appears to still be in reasonable callibration. I would hate to have to replace the heads one day, but I have done relapping at home, you know.
I am just lucky in stumbling upon these tapes, that is basically it!
BTW, I see no harm in putting little packets of dissicant in the boxes of your reels. You do know that you can reactivate those silica gell packs by reheating them, don't you?
Good luck and happy listening!
Keep the machine running and clean.
Follow Ups:
Fortunately everything you need to make the old single motor Tandbergs are still available. The figure 8 belts are still sold by at least 2 vedors and they are reasonably priced. The pinch rollers like turning to goo on these but there is a guy that will rebuild your old one for not a lot of money. The brake/clutch pads are just sheet cork and you can easily cut the new ones yourself. I have a Model 5,6, 64,64X, 3000X. 6000X. For some reason R2Rs keep following me home (the lost puppy syndrome) and I now have over 200 of the damn things. I still have 3 Crown 700 series machines I bought back in the 70s to make live recordings. Of course those 3 Crowns multiplied over night into 11. One of my hobbies is making "vintage" 2 channel recordings of live bands here locally, usually Jazz and Bluegrass or Folk. Sometimes I set up 3 stereo pairs of different vintage and new microphones going to 3 different decks so I can compare them later. I have 3 Tapesonic 70 series machines, 2 tube and 1 solid state that I have rebuilt that I like to use. I also have a Studer B62 that does a great job and I when I feel like using something newer I use a modified Tascam 70-4 1/2" machine. Also in my collection are (2) Revox G36, (6) Sony 777, (2) Sony 770, (1) Sony 854, Sony APR2003,(3)Akai 345, Akai 330, (2) XV, Akai 747, Braun 1000/4, Several various Uher machines, lots of moni tube machines and wire recorders. I keep meaning to thin out the heard but instead they just keep multiplying...Just like all the other vintage audio stuff I keep tripping over here..
Hi, Dave:You have me beat, hands and reels DOWN!
What microphones are you using when you record to 2-track?
Do you have any experience with the old B&O BM-3 or BM-4 ribbon microphones, by any chance?
I have a pair of freshly re-ribboned BM-4's (Steve Sank did the ribbons for me). Even with my Ampex MX-10 (with the Jensen 115 trannies installed) there is not quite enough gain to get a decent s/n ratio. My Aphex 1100 yields -65 dB gain, but even it is apparently not quite high enough, gain-wise.
You thoughts would be most appreciated!
Sounds like you enjoy what you are doing in a BIG way!
I also remember the Sony 777 series decks very fondly. They sort of took away a chunk of business from Ampex when they came out in the early sixties, didn't they!Cool!
I am not familiar with the B&O units. I have a pair of Shure 300 ribbon microphones I use for the 2nd stereo pair when I am using more than one recorder. They also have very low output and I had the same problem when I also had a Ampex MX 10. I had always wanted a MX10 but after I got one I just couldn't get the detail out of it I wanted. It did have a vintage sound though. I was going to put in all Sowter transformers but never could justify spending the money so I eventually Fleabayed it. I also didn't really need a mixer as I always use just a pair of stereo mikes so I really needed a good set of precision balanced mike preamps. I decided to build my own. I also decided I couldn't afford all the transformers I'd need as it would take 2 per channel and I wanted to make 6 channels and it wasn't worth doing unless I used top notch transformers. I settled on a design from tube cad that was really a balanced phono preamp that used 6922 tubes so I removed the passive eq and tweaked the values to use 6021 sub mini tubes. I added switchable gain, phase and input termination but kept it pretty basic. As for other mikes, I have been playing around with converting Chinese Apex condenser mikes to use better capsules and other parts. They pretty much suck stock (1 reviewer said he had to go through 30 of them to find 2 that matched). Fortunately they use standard 34mm mounts so Peluso Neumann style capsules bolts right in and I removed the Chinese 12AX7 and used a 6021 submini and better passive parts. I am also rebuilding its power supply into a different cabinet and since the Sowter trannies I ordered to replace the internal Chinese probably won't fit in the mike shell I will put them in the power supply cabinet. I also have a pair of AKG C12 condenser mikes that are usually my primary pair but I have high hopes for these modified Apex units.
The Sony 777 machines are real workhorses but stock they double as a pink noise generator. I modified one so it now has external bias adjustment and better parts on the playback cards and it made a big difference. Ferrite playback heads off certain newer models can also be installed as they are compatible mount and impedance wise so I want to try that on the "J" version as the other versions have 2/4 track playback heads in one. I want to fix up 2 of them really nice and sell the remaining 4 so I'm not tripping over them anymore :)
Hi, Dave:Sounds like you have a very firm grip on recording work and gear, which is very impressive, to say the least!
With ribbons, GAIN is the issue, apparently.
BTW, people have said some very favorable things about the Peluso line of microphones. I happen to like and use Milabs, however, mostly for classical (chamber) work. The MBHO 603 cardioids I own are another decent choice in my opinion.
I just wanted to see what these restored B&O ribbon BM-4's would do for me. On piano, with a little extra EQ, they sound magnificent! It is the level of noise which is bothersome. I do not build gear at all, but if I must, I will probably think in terms of purchasing the AEA Ribbon Mic Pre to see what can be done about this matter, or otherwise, just sell my B&Os. I own a pair of BM-4's and a single BM-3, all restored by Steve Sank.
Thanks again!
Cheers and happy recording!
Its amazing how good these late 1950s Shure 300s can sound also. I put them both close in front of one of my ESLs and swept with a signal generator and they were still mostly within a DB of each other. My Dad had purchased these new in the late 50's.
Hi, Dave:Weren't the Shure 300's originally marketed for the purpose of voice work? Hey, if it works, it works!
It was the 330 that really got used for voice aps (like Johny Carson).
They sound amazingly smooth for recording un-amplified instruments, really clean midrange...
They do have a built in Music/Voice filter switch than when set to Music it has a fairly straight response from 40hz to 15khz.
They also had a model 315 which was a scaled down version that was more suitable for Voice only.I added a link about them...
Thanks again, Dave!What do you use for recording preamps these days, especially with the Shure Bros. 300 ribbons?
Just curious!
"I have high hopes for these modified Apex units."Been working the same idea myself. Not much of the original Apex left in mine - Peluso edge terminated capsule, shunt regulated and CCS'd 6072, Peerless output transformer, new wire, GAC cable, Teflon caps, Schottky rectifiers, modded grill, constrained layer damping tape on the frame, modded iso mount, etc., etc.
So far it's been an interesting project. Might be worthwhile to compare notes off the forum.
Before someone subjects that last pic to too much scrutiny, the mic has the stock center terminated (oops, did I say POS?) capsule in it. This is a pic of the current iteration with the Peluso capsule, trying to absorb some warmth and resolution from a neighboring Brauner VMA. That VMA is awesome.
You're a bit further along on the 460's than I am as I am still waiting on some parts but yes I'd love to compare notes especially when I get a bit further into these.
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