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People in the vintage forum are now discussing Yorx and Soundesign component systems.The vintage forum has been used as a sort of 'catch all' for some time now.... since there is no 'Solid State' forum... or 'Big Ass Receiver' forum. Please... for the love of God... please create some type of forum that will split the vintage forum into two forums. One being a 'Golden Age' forum and one being an 'Early Solid State' forum... or something akin to this.
The vintage forum is tedious enough with the likes of D0N and having to sift through myriad posts about Sony and Yamaha receivers.Do this and I will donate a decent chunk of change and become a member... seriously. 90% of why I come here is for the vintage forum and it is going downhill fast.
Please consider it... and thanks in advance.
Take care, have a great day,
BanningPS. As an example of what it is like in there... go in there and scroll down and look at what brands and topics are listed in subject lines on the first page alone. I think this will give you some indication as to what is going on. How many of those subjects seem truly pertinent to 'Vintage Audio'?
Follow Ups:
nt
OOH. "I might become a member."If you are lamenting what the forum is becoming, but are not a member now, why weren't you one when it was more to your liking back 'in the good ole' days'?
"The vintage forum is tedious enough with the likes of D0N and having to sift through myriad posts about Sony and Yamaha receivers." C'mon, now! You find scrolling and resisting the urge to click on threads that you have no interest in 'tedious'? Perhaps what you really need is a forum dedicated to the development of personal restraint and judgement, so you can better avoid the subjects you are not interested in...newspapers and magazines must drive you nuts with all that 'tedium' of sifting through for the interesting articles.
I'm not going to do this for you every two months, its just too time consuming, so below is what I found back in May when you made the same type of claim that the Vintage Audio forum was going to hell in a handbasket. Take a look and see if your claims of 80s remote controlled BPOC domination were any more accurate then than they are now...
Its fine with me if you and the other 'pure of faith' go and form your own self-absorbed, introspective fan club to congratulate one another about your discerning taste and comiserate about how the unwashed unconverted are blind to the truth and just don't understand - that's fine and dandy with me. Just don't advocate 'revising' or 'splitting' the current forum because you don't like the mix there now. I personally LIKE to have the opportunity to learn and grow from a mix of personalities and beliefs. Do you think that the participants of your 'Golden Age' forum would welcome a spirited, lengthy debate over the qualities of SS gear versus tube gear? Or, more likely, would it likely degrade immediately into an insult-fest, culminating with cries to 'get the SS infidel out of here'? The current Vintage forum is where the mix of people is such that debate would be welcomed and cherished.
If we split the SS and Tube folks off into their own forums, do we then need a dedicated sub-sub-forum to discuss and compare the relative merits of SS and tubes? Where does the marginalization and isolationism stop? Wasn't the concept of the internet and this type of forum supposed to be diametrically opposed to that happening? I guess the idealism phase is over... :-(
Given the popularity of the Vintage Forum, I'd have to say that its right on target for the majority of folks there, and I find its richness of topics fascinating and educational. In fact, so much so that I, *without conditions*, am a contributing member here.
I challenged everyone when I joined, and I challenge you and everyone else again - if you are here regularly, put some horsepower behind your support and become a paying member!
Cheers,
PBG
LINK:
http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.pl?forum=vintage&n=38582&highlight=CUlater&r=&session=
TEXT:
Posted by CUlater ( A ) on May 02, 2003 at 14:44:33
In Reply to: Link to a new forum request... posted by Monkeypunch! on May 01, 2003 at 18:40:48:
I just don't get it. Looks pretty vintage here right now, and there is a Tube Asylum for that pre-1951 stuff.
Reality Check: I Opened the Vintage Asylum in a second window - here's the threads I see in there right now (5/2/03, 4:38PM EDT):- Vintage Mac / Marantz tube amp circuit question
- DUAL 1000 & 1200 Series Turntables. Info wanted; also what's a good sound edit program?
- Marantz 8B in triode mode?
- Lamps for vintage
- Sansui 9090
- Vintage Tube Mono "Receiver"
- Preamps
- ST-70 Minor Problem
- What's the longest thread ever here?
- A couple cases of severe 'sticker shock'
- So, when did McIntosh get it right with SS?
- Continually amazed
- Vintage Mac C22 price keeps going up!
- Link to a new forum request...
- Upgrading caps for Kenwood KA-907/KA-9100 integrated amps
- Philips AH 673
- vector research
- Pioneer sx727 speaker outputs
- possible nice score. while driving
- Suggestions for an amplifier
- Allander
- Sherwood ah! forgot the first rule of vintage
- whaddya expect for $3 ?
- FM and Antennas Poll
- The "Lights Up but Can't Test/No Speakers" Sherwood!
- what tube in my Mcintosh mx110 controls right channel
- Inmates in the Chattanooga area
- Color coded cap question
- Vintage Kenwood tuner questions
- Calling Dick in northern Illinois
- The under $250 challenge... and so on. That's about the 2 and a half days of threads, for a total of 31 distinct subjects.
I see at least 8-9 of them discussing tube equipment.
I see one *possible* thread about 80s stuff (the Vector Research post, just don't know the exact year for that receiver)
I see 4-5 'budget' threads (the '$3' one is about 70s gear, the 'Sherwood, ah' one is about tube gear, the 'possible nice score' one is about tube gear, the '$250 challenge' one is circa 1973 equipment, and maybe 'Continually Amazed' could be considered a '70s budget' post)
The rest are 60s and 70s related threads.
No one is demanding that the tube threads (30%) leave and be banished to the tube forum or else. But the budget threads (15%) are just too irritating to deal with??? They're too hard to recognize and avoid? Come on, get real!!
What's more, I'd say that the budget threads, considering the number of responses, are pretty popular with the majority of folks that hang out here.
I'm sorry that you are in the minority here, but I don't see any persecution - no one is clamoring for those with a preference for tubes, or those with an older definition for 'vintage', to leave.
I hope you choose to stay, and just avoid the '...for the price of a Happy Meal' (BTW, I really liked that analogy!) threads - the discussion is richer with your participation!
Cheers,PBG
The problem is with the term 'Vintage'.The vintage forum was begun many years ago (1999 I think) because the tube gear guys didn't have a forum of their own... ask Rod... he might recall when it happened.
My point, and others agree with me (even Rod mentioned he has noticed the inconsistency of the vintage area), is that the 'Vintage' forum is not a 'Vintage' forum. Rename the forum, split it, something... but as it stands now it is not in line with it's purpose.
This isn't about solid-state versus tubes (you seem stuck on that point... get over it)... it is about the term 'Vintage'. Posts about an Onkyo 'integrated' amp do NOT belong in a vintage forum. Go browse the topics and tell me how many fit the common person's idea of 'Vintage'. The forum is a catch-all for all sorts of topics. It is simply a mess.
Explain to me PBG.... why in the hell there is something as specialized as a single ended triode forum... and yet the topic of vintage tube gear (which is, in comparison, multitudes larger) does not have it's own forum.
Many of us (not just me) are sick of sifting through 'look what I found in the dumpster' posts and argumentative posts comparing one method of collecting to the other. We are of different mindsets... and I believe we should have different forums. If you are too lazy to click an extra button to go view another set of opinions that is your issue... not mine. The vintage forum began as a 'vintage tube' forum.... it has been hijacked. Deal with it. All I am asking for is some change... does that hurt you so badly?
Banning
PS. And no... I will not become a paying member till this issue finds some sort of resolution. Whatever Rod's decision is I will live with it. But becoming a paying member gives you more than the bragging rights you are so frequently throwing in peoples faces... it represents a satisfaction and a belief in the content. While I consider this site to be the best on the net and Rod's work exemplary... my becoming a paying member represents a sort of nod to the content and to the fellow members... and while D0N can continue his hijinks nearly unchecked and while I have to read about how pretty the 'blue meters on Marantz gear' are in a vintage forum I won't put my money where my mouth is. I am quite secure in the fact that Rod understands where I am coming from. In fact, I offered my free, voluntary services to help with the site.
Ok, its been hijacked. Its a wide mix, and apparently that is because the participants have a wide tolerance for what they consider 'vintage'. Its not what its original intended subject area was, a place for just vintage tube discussions.As you say, get over it.
I have absolutely no problem with there being a SET forum (tho I don't understand the need, what the hell, its their sandbox and if they like that color sand, fine). Likewise, I have absolutely no problem with there being other forums, like a 'Pre-1951', or a 'Vintage Tube', or whatever. That's great, and certainly seems appropriate in view of the narrow focus of some of the other forums (see SET and High Efficiency Loudspeakers, among others).
Where I have a problem is when the implication is that there is something 'wrong' with the existing Vintage Asylum, and that it needs to be changed. Make all the new specialized forums you want, but let's leave one place where we can have reasoned discussions about a cross-section of audio topics that would not be otherwise possible in a specialized focus area forum. The Vintage Asylum forum is a reflection of its participants - and a damn fine group of folks they are, if I may say so myself.
And its not a case of being too lazy to click a button to read a forum focused on another area of audio. Its the fact that we will never be able to duplicate the sort of cross-pollenation between tube guys, SS guys, Monster receiver fans, and 'audio mystics' that we have in Vintage Asylum in a forum that is dedicated to only Pre-1951, or Vintage Tubes, or Vintage SS. Imagine if you will what the reaction would be over in the tube forum if there was a post asking for recommendations for an amp, and someone posted back with a bunch of SS recommendations. "Please Mr. Moderator, this is the TUBE forum, make him stop!" (and I'm sure the opposite would occur if there was a SS forum...). And yet this is an entirely appropriate post for the current Vintage Asylum, and if it results in tube, SS, and late-70s/early-80s suggestions, generally no one argues that they are inapropriate posts (tho there may be some debate WRT relative merits...;-)
In summary: make any additional forums that folks want. Leave Vintage Asylum alone. If its 'wrong', the folks will vote with their mouse clicks and it will die.
But I'm betting it won't...
Cheers,
I hear ya and I've noticed a shift in tone recently.Perhaps posting something about this on Vintage would help to get aome idea. I do see some of the stuff as not being classic vintage, but Marantz receivers are considered classics as are some of the Sansuis and so forth. I don't know where to draw the line. Part of it is personalities and that's easier to resolve. D0N is surely on our radar screen.
I'm open to fixing it, but I'm just not sure what the fix is.
While replacing some bulbs in my Marantz 2250 I accidentally bumped the strings for the radio tuner contraption out of place. I tried my best to restring the areas, but the dial moved back and forth a few inches, then it came undone.
The strings are in fantastic condition, I just don't know how to reloop the strings to get the radio dial to work again.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated (and pic if possible).
nt
I read though it today. If we did split it, then Tubes/SS makes sense. But then where do speakers and other stuff fit? It's not clear to me that there's a huge concensus on what to do. If anything, there seemed like a slight biases toward leaving it alone.Perhaps what we need to do is a bit more moderation and move some of the inappropiate posts elsewhere.
Heya Rod,Well, if the tube/ss split did happen wouldn't speaker posts belong in the 'Speakers - General' area? That forum is filled with some incredibly knowledgable people who would have mothing but insight into most posts regarding any speaker. Oftentimes there are duplicate posts between the 'vintage area' and 'speaker - general' area.
Though, while I agree that the 'cross-fertilization' that takes place between the two camps is neat.... I also believe that it will still happen since all of us will still be under one roof. I honestly believe that the ss and tube mindsets and goals are different enough to merit seperate forums. As I stated... there is, after all, a Single Ended Triode forum.
Moderating a forum with such an ambiguous title as 'Vintage' will be tough.... that is the exact reason that I think a forum split would make great sense.
Maybe going with the ss/tube split and then creating a sort of free for all forum called 'Tubes Vs. Solid State' would be fun too. Sort of a playground for the type of debates that the people that who are against the split look forward to.
While I agree that it seems the vocal majority are slightly in favor of keeping it the way it is... I think many people have not/are not speaking up.... and that the original goal of the Vintage forum was a pre 1975 forum... as you yourself said. It seems like the Vintage forum started out as a resource for people who were looking for vintage tube audio repair advice and information... and then slowly was hijacked with dumpster and thrift store posts... and then the recent budget audio posts.
Just some ideas... I hope it helps. I really look forward to a resolution... because, as I have said, I truly enjoy this board and derive a great amount of knowledge and enjoyment from being a member. I just think that it could be streamlined a bit... and I am always willing to speak up or help out.
Hmmm,I have been thinking of about the line drawing situation since I posted... and have come to a few conclusions.
The problem with the term 'vintage' is that it is purely a subjective term. Vintage to one person is absolutely not vintage to another. So... while I am sympathetic to people posting there about Marantz receivers and the ilk.... when I see people posting about vintage CD players and receivers with remotes I tend to get a bit frustrated.
As I said... I think the problem is that the vintage area is being treated as a catch-all forum for whatever doesn't fit into other areas. The 'amp/preamp' forum is another such ambiguous title. I don't mean to nitpick... trust me... you do an absolutely stand up job around here and I would be willing to help you with it if you were so inclined.... and I mean that. I don't work so I have the time.
I think the solution to the 'vintage' forum would be to add a qualifier of some sort... for example - Vintage (Tube) with another forum called Vintage (Solid State) or simply rename the 'Vintage' area 'Golden Age Audio' with another forum called 'Early Solid State'. I think something along these lines would bring a much needed dichotomy into focus for many people... since *very* often one school is not at all interested in the other.
Feel free to email me regarding my offer, etc.
Thanks for your time, consideration, and hard, unpaid work.
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