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In Reply to: Re So I take it you havent heard em? posted by tunz on July 30, 2002 at 18:34:27:
First,What EXACT question did you ask?
I believe that I responded your specific question thoroughly.
First, my intial query had NOTHING to to with the quality of sound produced by the InfiniCap. This is primarily because I have NOT heard them. I have experienced other capacitors and found wonderful improvements over the garden variety Sonic/Axon/Bennic capacitors. I have no problem with the Infinicap souding better. I am certain that it does.
I will certainly allow that there are speakers that sound ACCURATE and there are speakers that sound MUSICAL. Frankly, I don't know how Brian's speakers sound. I will admit to having appreciation for a musical sound, but prefer an accurate one. I will also convey that the response curves, crossover components, driver motor, driver cone, cabinet (etc etc) do have audible impact. I have some experience with these things, and do believe that the GENERAL characteristics of a speaker can be obtained by looking at the parts. I will certainly agree that the sum of those parts can only be experienced when experienced as a whole - in a the listening room. The parts do, nonetheless have a very tangible impact on the sound, and generalizations can be made. A good example would be a Monitor Audio 9 and a Tannoy Churchill. I bet a layperson could figure this one out from the pictures with a fair degree of success.
I believe your analogy of the floor plans for a house bears some significance here. Not knowing anything about the floor plan will provide complete ignorance about how it will feel when you walk through the front door.
I prefer to know something. The frequency plot does have an impact, as does the distortion plot.
I have not spent years with my computer attached to a gated time response, but have spent a little time and found it quite revealing. it is quite possible for even me (I don't consider myself to have a golden ear) to hear slightly significant dips and peaks in the response. They do affect the subjective character of the speaker.
Have you done any measuring/designing?
Dave
Follow Ups:
Dave, have you heard both versions of the RM40? You came back with a yes to that question, then later admitted you havent heard them. My analogy to house plans and how they wont convey the feeling of what its like to walk in the front door of a house is much like your wanting to say you can tell what a speaker sounds like from a plot. If simple measurements told the whole story I wonder why so many audiophiles like tube amps. They dont measure well against ss.What is it really Dave, do you just need to try and give Brian some negative "ink" to balance out all that positive "ink" that owners of his speakers write about on the board? Hey, what do you charge for those little 6.5 inch two ways you build? Some how I doubt they are a value leader.
Oh, to answer your question, no I dont measure drivers, or design speakers, I`ll leave that up the the pros. But I do vote, loud and clear, with my wallet, and my hard earned money is buying VMPS. Is there a pun in there??
Your question was "Have you heard em?". The body of your message, and majority of this string pertains to capacitors tolerance. I figured it was a safe bet to respond to an issue regarding capacitors.You are welcome to call me on the telephone if you want to discuss this further. I do have 2 young boys though. They own much of my time. 9:00pm mountain time is a sure bet. Sometimes 8:00pm is okay too, but this is bed-time for our very energetic 2 year old. Hence, it is somewhat protracted activity.
(406)454-0733
If you would like, I'd gladly pay for the phone bill. Shoot me your telephone number and let me know if when I should call.
First of all, Dave never criticised the sound of the VMPS speakers. He was very complimentary. It appears the original issue has been solved which is good because it was getting boring.I doubt Dave is envious of the "ink" VMPS has received. This is a hobby for him and I can say whole heartedly that he makes very little profit on those "little" 6.5 inch speakers. I also take issue with the "value leader" comment. Have you priced the drivers and crossovers? Anyone who has (and has a brain in his head) will tell you that there is NO better value in all of audio. I would bet that the cost of materials for the 1801's is close to the cost of materials in the RM-40's. The cabinet work is also better than anything you will see out of VMPS.
Don't get me wrong, I have listened to VMPS speakers and I like them. Even though I have been critical of the pricing on the upgraded caps, I have been totally complimentary of the speaker performance.
Lastly, I can't imagine ANY speakers would sound good to you. Your head seems to be stuck too far up your ass to hear anything.
Jackman, It looked like Dave was gonna drive his issue into the ground. I have never even heard of Ellis Audio or whatever he calls himself. I seriously doubt his list of materials comes close to the materials in a rm40. Real simple addition man, but maybe its over your head. FYI, i have Logan Aerius that I`m quite happy with. You know the whole thing is this, the optional caps in VMPS speakers is just that, an option. If someone doesnt want em dont get em. There are apparently people who feel they are worth the price of admission. I have seen many people on here who do in fact think VMPS speakers represent one of the best value for dollars in the biz. Now, go wash your mouth out with soap.
Haaaaa! I knew it! Touched a nerve because you have a pair of RM-40's on order (according to your post last week). Thought you were happy with the ML's. You are not only an incompitant boob, you are a liar. Here is your post:Posted by tunz (A) on July 25, 2002 at 20:03:13
In Reply to: Re: VMPS RM-40 w/TRT caps (save yourself $6,500) posted by MikeD60 on July 25, 2002 at 16:56:37:
It looks like this may be the case. I have 40`s on order with the Auricap upgrade. Think I made a good choice. < <
Yes, I now own m l Aerius, and I have rm40`s on order. The Aerius are nice speaks. Maybe lacking in dynamics a bit, but very pleasent all in all. So where is the lie? I have one speaker and am upgrading to another. You are starting to look like not the sharpest knife in the drawer dude.
You implied that you were happy with your current speaks without mentioning your pending order. No matter. It's over!I admit that I may not be the sharpest knife in the drawer but I know I'm smarter than you. This is similar to a 350 lb. guy looking at a 500 lb. guy and feeling thin...
Jack,not half a dozen posts up in this thread I stated for the world to read that my money was going to VMPS.Ya might wanna check of Hooked on Phonics, dude.
If you say so, I will believe you. I'll even admit that you are right. That's a word a guy like you doesn't hear very often.I'm through posting this BS. If you want to take this off line, feel free to email. If you want to meet in Chicago or wherever you live, please say the word.
Funny how a guy who never heard of Ellis speakers knew enough to insult them and say that they were not a value. I don't know how you can "seriously doubt" anything regarding his product when you supposedly have never heard of it anyway. You don't seem like a guy too concerned with the facts.I guess it makes me a little angry when a jerk (like yourself) questions the integrety of a good guy like Dave Ellis. The questions asked of Brian were legitimate. If a manufacturer makes claims that are not supported by science, people have the right to ask questions. Brian doesn't have to answer questions if he doesn't want to, it's his perogative.
My problem is not with Brian Cheney. He is a hard working guy running what a commercially successful business. His products seem to be well liked by many of the people who have listened to them and who own them. I have listened to two models and have posted positive things about their sound. My problem is with YOU. If you think you are slick, you are sadly mistaken.
If you are ever in the Chicago area, please give me a call. I would really like to talk speakers with you in person.
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