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In Reply to: VMPS RM 40 vs Aerial Acoustics 8b vs Von Schweikert VR 5 posted by yumkk on July 29, 2002 at 14:48:47:
Have a listen to a pair of upgraded Newform R645s.I had someone over the house a few months ago. He has many pair of Aerials, including the 10T's for his audio. He has the 8's, 6's and center channel for his HT. He liked my upgraded R645s so much, that he bought a pair and will probably be looking at upgrading the parts.
If you're interested in hearing a pair, email me and I'll see if I don't know someone in your area.
Have a great day,
Brad
Follow Ups:
Any Newform owners in the Chicago area? I would be interested in listenting to a pair.Jack
Hi Jack,I made a post on the Newform Forum to see who is receptive.
I know of one person up there that has a stock pair, however IMO the $425.00 Upgrade has improved them by as much as 200%. Everyone who has done the upgrade has said the improvement was 50% to 200%.
I'll let you know.
Have a great day,
Brad
"Upgrade has improved them by as much as 200%. Everyone who has done the upgrade has said the improvement was 50% to 200%"
Yeah, it's a sad statement that a pair of speakers needs to be upgraded right out of the proverbial box to sound good.Disclaimer, I have not heard the speakers that Brad touts as the second coming of Christ, but he doesn't advocate the stock version nearly as rabidly. And a lot of folks have less than pleasant things to say about them.
I will make SURE that when I have the opportunity to audition a pair, they are the "upgraded" version.
Oz
> > > Yeah, it's a sad statement that a pair of speakers needs to be upgraded right out of the proverbial box to sound goodFirst off, the speakers sound good as stock and a bargain at the price they sell for. As stock, people are preferring them, to their Maggie 1.6's and 3.6's. I do new a few people who have 1.6's and they have moved them to surround sound duty in their system. John Meyer builds a great system for that price. If he was to build them with upgraded parts, he'd have to charge a good bit more. The $1,900 to $2,265 purchasing segment for speakers is pretty wide. When you move up to like $3,000, the market starts to dwindle. I know someone in Denver, who had the Totem Mani II's and Audio Artistry Dvorak's and bought the stock R645s. He preferred the stock to these two much higher priced speakers. He had upgraded his stock speakers.
The upgraded pair must be pretty good, as I've had one person who had Talon Khorus X's and ended up going with a pair of upgraded R645s. Another person with Aerial 10T's, who just got his stock pair of R645s and plans to upgrade them.
Any smart audiophile should be putting his money where they can get the most bang for the buck. I think you'll agree, that getting that type of improvement for $425.00, should be a no brainer.
Also, other people are experimenting with different drivers for the mid/bass. This is because they prefer a different type of mid/bass sound, however they're keeping with the Newform Ribbon, as the image from it is really that good. You can look back at posts that Arbelos has made about the ribbon itself and he is a dealer for another speaker company.
I invite you to hear a pair and I think you'll agree.
Have a great day,
Brad
I heard the Newform R645 a couple of months ago at my friends house. He was driving the speaker with a Spectron amp, FT Audio passive attenuator, CEC transport, and Assemblage 2.7 DAC. The stock speaker, IMHO, is one of the most overrated speakers in high end audio. The bass was boomy, the highs were fatiguing and the speaker as a whole lacked coherency. After listening for 2-3 hours, I needed a couple of aspirin. I can't speak for the upgraded version, but the stock speaker is definitely flawed. Hmm, maybe that is why nearly everyone who buys it wants to upgrade it.
If you found the highs fatiguing, then I would have to believe that there were room mode problems.Too many times, people hear a speaker at someones house or a store, where it isn't setup correctly or room modes totally cloud the picture.
The listening fatigue and headache that were a result of my listening experience with the R645 were most likely due to the speaker's lack of coherency. Good speakers in the +$2000 range should only make errors of omission. This speaker makes serious errors in its low frequency performance and the integration of the ribbon to the bass driver. Why else would so many owners be making changes to the caps in the crossover and coating the bass cabinet with sound deadening materials? I think many owners of this speaker got caught by the hype on certain websites, and bought it. After the initial appeal of owning a ribbon speaker(most ribbon speakers will impress initially because of their speed and detail), these owners became more critical of the speaker's flaws. Then they had to decide whether to sell(this is a pain because it is so bulky and tough to package)or to modify the speaker to eliminate the speaker's problems. I've owned a ribbon hybrid for about 7 years, the Apogee Centaur Major, which I sold about 2 years ago. The Apogee, IMHO, was much better than the R645 but its problems were similiar to the Newform R645, just not nearly as noticeable. Like I said, I haven't heard a modified R645, so I can't comment on it, but I think the stock version has serious flaws which necessitate modification.
As I commented on this forum a year ago, I was impressed by the stock 645 when I heard it with very similar (I think exactly similar) equipment at an owner's house in San Mateo.The Newform ribbon has an airy, spacious quality I did not expect. From 1100Hz up the speaker is just dandy.
I noticed the crossover and bass discontinuities you did. OK, maybe John Meyer didn't spend enough money on woofers or cabinets. Since this is a hobby and many folk can DIY, the mods make sense to me.
I should note the listening room for this system was quite large and completely undamped, including a 40' long glass wall to the right side
(no drapes or absorbent furniture/carpets) which contributed to the lively sound.I'll say it again, John is to be congratulated for a daring and successful design.
Big B
If that's true I would hardly say that John skimped on woofers, since the Scan Speaks are some of the better woofers made and use a sophisticated motor design with a shorting ring to reduce distortion and extend the upper range. Although I have no experience with this speaker, if there is a problem, I would expect it to be with the crossover.
Hi Brian,Mike says you are welcome to come back anytime. He's upgraded his speakers and I'd be very interested to hear what you thought of them.
Thanks and have a great day,
Brad
you haven't even heard. They are simply amazing, IMHO.And from what I have seen, it hasn't been "lots of folks" with less than pleasant things to say. It has been a very, very small and often vocal, minority! And I always look for motive anytime I read raves OR reamers.
It seems to me that I have seen a hundred great reviews to a couple of negative experiences. (And ya never will please everyone). Anecdotally, can't say I have seen any other speaker with the same good to bad ratio.
I suspect that if Newform advertised heavily and courted the audio gods like so many others, the snob resistance would vanish (not a reference to you personally).
Surely, an internet speaker can't compete with or exceed Maggies, Aeriels, Merlins, etc. Think again.
Actually, I would very much like to hear a pair someday and see for myself. I am probably not all that far from Brad, if he is NC like I thought.Hey, to each his own. I am very much enjoying my Montanas, that probably aren't everyone's cup of tea either.
Oz
Hi Ozzy,I live in Summerfield, which is 10 minutes North of Greensboro on Hwy 220. Also 90 minute drive from Roanoke, VA, Raleigh, NC and Charlotte, NC.
Have a great day,
Brad
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