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I have never heard one of these speakers but I must say my curiosity has been peaked. Through reading the literature, it would seem they are the poor man's electrostat...largely getting away from the boxy sound to the crisp neutral detail and openess of some of the electrostats.While speakers are a compromise this company seems to offer a lot for pretty low dollars. Other than having a pretty difficult loads and low sensitivity, any thought about this company. http://www.magnepan.com/
Follow Ups:
The big cons on maggies:After a while you realize, you'll need to spend $$$$$ in your upstream components to really give justice to the maggies (its like marrying your high school sweetheart, and watch it transform into a very demanding and expensive wife, although your love keeps growing as well:))
I will certainly look into them when it comes time to upgrade. The speakers I have now were and are meant for the rock/dance and Jazz music genres. They are Wharfedale Vanguards...horn tweeters, big 10 inch fibre-woven drivers. Having 95db sensitivity is also a bonus for tube amps.However, I bought them 10 years ago and being 18 then, my musical tastes have left Motley Crue for Vivaldi...and am now very much into female vocalists. Plus living in an apartment my Arcam Delta 290 Integrated amp is somewhat wasted. I mean I can't put the volume past the 8 o'clock position without shaking the place.
I have listened to several floorstanders around the 2k mark...which is what the Wharfedales roughly ran in 1992. Nothing seems handedly better. The new Slim line designs in fashion now have much better soundstaging, but all the ones using metal tweeters I find unbearably bright. You'd think the horns would be bright...but not all horns are from Klipsch :-)
I love the sound of the electrostatics...quite frankly there is more information that seems to be there. To the point where on the Phil Collins But Seriously... album I was saying "WOW I didn't know there was a trumpet there...I didn't know there was one in the song at all."
The best standmount I've heard is the References 3a MM De Capo because it sounds like an electrostat...but it's 3k CDN...out of my league.
The Delta 290 integrated is a conservative 75 watt RMS which is rated higher(don't know what) into a 4ohm load...it's likely rated close to double into 4 ohm.
I may try and sell the Wharfedales...10 years with one sound is pretty good...besides A lot of college students would love em...the kick the snot out of the Paradigm 100 for pure SPL and they look cool with the metal rims bolted to the drivers. Whatever I get might cover something like the MMGs.
Trouble is I was planning on buying a tube amp(but I can still go with the tube pre...that's where the real tube sound is anyway).
Thanks for the info...I need to find a dealer near me.
I will say one more thing that has not already been said. The MMG model is being given away for a price at which the sound can not be matched by any other manufacture(with a money back return policy!).
I would guess that Magneplanars are by far the most popular planar speakers made. The company has been around for many years and has an excellent reputation among audiophiles. (The high-end magazine "Absolute Sound" absolutely adores them.) You might want to click on the "Planar Speaker Asylum" link at the top of the page for TONS of information on Magneplanar speakers.
I owned several pairs of "Maggies" years ago, and they really got me hooked on planar and line-source speakers. Your description of Magneplanars as "the poor man's electrostat" has some truth to it, but the planar magnetic design has some major practical advantages over electrostatics:1. A purely resistive load, making them easier for the amp to drive(even though they do require a fair amount of power)
2. You don't have to plug them into the wall
3. No risk of arcing
4. Relatively unaffected by dust, smoke, and humidity
5. Extremely reliable
6. Very thin and light, since they do not need a transformer, so you can easily move them to the optimal position for listening, and move them out of the way when they are not in use
7. Outstanding price/performance ratio, good trade-up policiesCompared with box speakers, the main advantage of planars (both planar magnetics and electostatics) is their dipolar planar/line source radiation pattern, resulting in a HUGE soundstage, amazing depth, and room-filling sound. (This is what got me hooked on the planar sound.) They also suffer from no box resonances or colorations, since there is no box. Finally, they are (IMO) very cool looking!
The disadvantages of Maggies are:
1. Despite their thinness, they are very large and visually imposing, meaning that spouse-acceptance factor can be a problem
2. They need a lot of power (IME, at least 150 WPC)
3. Their transparency means that they can really show up deficiencies in upstream components
4. Room placement is critical, and can takes months of exacting effort to get right
5. Need a lot a distance from the front wall (i.e., behind them) -- say, 4-5 feet
6. A narrow sweet spot, the "vertical venetian blind" effect
7. Limited vertical dispersion
8. Clean (but rather polite) low end; definitely NOT for fans of gut-thumping bass (OTOH, they mate well with good subs like RELs.)All in all, I think the advantages far outweigh the disadvantages. When I bought my first pair of Maggies 25 years ago, I was totally blown away, and I've never been able to listen to box speakers since. You should definitely listen to a pair -- you may also become a convert!
PS. You might also want to check out some of the planar magnetic and ribbon hybrids that are out there (e.g., Eminent Technology, Newform Research [not a dipole design], VMPS [ditto], and Soundline Audio). They enjoy many of the advantages of planar speakers but also have a fuller, more visceral bass response. IMO, the better hybrid designs successfully avoid the problems associated with integrating a fast planar/line source with a conventional woofer.
Good listening!
Do the 3.5 or 3.6 suffer from the same limited vertical dispersion problems/venetian blind effect? I know the 1.6 do and the smaller models, but I am wodering about the bigger ones.
Thanks,
Bill
I heard the 3.6/R's at a dealer. When you stand up, the soundchanges dramatically. Night and day difference, too. It's like the music was suddenly 3-6dB quieter, and the soundstage collapsed.Chair in the sweet spot, butt in the chair == magic
deviating from the above == lost magic.My $0.02.
affect the sweet spot. The more powerful and transparent the amplifier the less deviation of the sound as you stand up and move around. I tried a little Cary tube integrated amp (80 watts pentode, 40 watts triode) which produced a smaller image that only sounded very good when I was sitting in a sweet spot in front of the speakers. I went back to a thirty year old 200 watt Accuphase and the sound held up as I stand up and is still very enjoyable when I am in the kitchen cooking. I have noticed with all three Magnepan models I have owned, the ability of the speaker (with the right amps) to allow one to listen at an angle, e.g., 45 degrees, and still experience a three dimensional stage that mimicked what I hear sitting at an angle watching a performance in my favorite jazz nightspots.Alan G.
The amp that was driving the 3.6s in my demp was a B&K Reference 2220 ($1000 street). So it seems the maggies are very resolving of upstream components as most suggest (i.e., if the soundstaging of the amp come into play that much).Wow.
Hi, Bill -- I'm definitely no Maggie guru, but I'll take a stab at your questions. First off, I think that the problem of limited vertical dispersion isn't really a big deal for any of the Maggies. Basically, for the shorter ones, it's only audible when you stand up near them, but I personally don't listen to music standing up. Also, this "problem" may also have the benefits of reduced floor and ceiling bounce. The vertical venetian blind effect actually takes place in the horizontal plane (like venetian blinds turned 90 degrees) and refers to the phase cancellations that occur between the side-by-side panels. I think this is more of a problem and is one of the major reasons for the limited sweet spot of Maggies. Hope that this helps clarify my comments. Good listening -- Dave
great post!Generally agree with your observations re: my own experience with Maggies.
just that some box speakers can sound like 'a curtain of sound' too with proper placement, and with a slightly larger sweet spot.
David,IMO your post was very accurate and unbiased. I had box speakers for years then I bought a pair of ML Aerius which I enjoyed for 4 years then I sold them and got Magnepan 1.6's and have been really happy. The strengths far outweigh the weaknesses. When I listen to speakers now, I always focus on the vocals and so many box speakers have colorations like slight nasal sounds or just an unnatural "sound" although they may throw a great soundstage and disappear with great 3D imaging, I can't overlook the colorations and end up back with planar sound.
IMHO,
Pros:Superb transparency, music emanating from the almost the entire length of the enclosure
Cons:
- One-note bass in the smaller Maggies. Great bass is only achieved when they are really wide ... i.e. much more expensive models
- Extremely narrow sweet spot. Move your head just a bit up/down, left/right, and the sound changes dramatically
- difficult to drive, need lots of power. Of course, they'll work with 50 watts, but the speakers' potential is wasted
-
the sweet spot is DEFINITELY FINITE. Sure, the musicians sounded as if they were in my room, but the Maggies have no place for general walk-around listening enjoyment. Heck, I could not even lean over without losing the "presence" these speakers offered. Leave your chair, and the effect is totally lost. (Made me long for my old JBLs. Say what you want about "imaging" ability of many JBLs, but they can sure fill a room with sound.) These are definite "inmate" system speakers. My Maggies are stored until I have an appropriate "cell."
No, it's not, it's a well-known fact and a concern for some ...Inspite of that, many like them, and I do agree it can be beguiling. I sold mine within 1 hour of advertising, at almost the same price as new ...
A search in the Planar Asylum for "sweet spot" will yield 200 entries ...Here's some:
10: Re: Please help, how big is the 1.6's sweet spot? (3568.00)
Posted by Jian on 2001-12-19, 07:12:01 (66.65.104.209)
The sweet spot is only 1 foot to me for serious listening. This is why I say Maggies aren't romantic speakers. No threesome please. You and Maggie will do it. :-) .......1: "Sweet Spot" size (0.00)
Posted by Dennis C on 2001-06-25, 17:27:21 (207.178.211.66)
I noticed the smallish sweet spot of the 1.6s. When I stood up from the listening chair, a lot of quality disappeared. Do you know if the MMGs' sweet spot is even smaller? I'm concerned by all the com .......2: Re: Please help, how big is the 1.6's sweet spot? (8906.00)
Posted by NK on 2001-12-19, 10:06:42 (172.139.53.10)
I find that for me the sweet spot for any speakers is only good for 1 person. I love great imaging and sitting anywhere except dead in the middle of the sweet spot, doesn't do it for me when listening .......3: Please help, how big is the 1.6's sweet spot? (0.00)
Posted by Maggiebuyer on 2001-12-18, 18:54:32 (64.70.83.253)
I hear that we must stay immobile to listen to Maggie, because out of the sweet spot, the sound is flat. Is the sweet spot big enough for a group of persons (3, 4 ??) sitting together can listen to it .......
etc.
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