|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
Currently Im using a:LP12/basic/Grado Ref
Music Fidelity XPS phonopre
Rotel DPS985 THX Prologic PreAmp
Rotel 1030 100x5 watt Amp
AudioQuest Intigo2 Cables
AudioQuest Viper Interconnects
Mirage 490i tower speakers
...rated 89db sens, 8 ohmAll in a room thats 12' x 24' concrete floor and brick walls. Phoenix Az.
I bought a volumne level detector at RatShack and placed it at 1 meter and 2 meters right in front of one speaker. I got readings of 90db at 1 meter and 92db at 2 meters with the volumne control at 11:00.
Ive heard some poeple comment that they like to play their speakers at over 100db. If i try to turn my system up past 11:00 I start to get sound compression. Just past 12:00 I start to hear a low throbbing hum like the bass is getting over loaded.
Any ideas on why this is my upper limit of 92db?Also, Im planning on buying the GR Research Paradox3 speaker kit or A/V-1+ kit and having ASL WAV-8 mono 10watt tubeamps drive them. Ive heard some poeple say that they had this combo and were satisfied with how loud they played.
Any help is appreciated. :)
Follow Ups:
I expect you should be able to hit an "average" of 90dB at your listening position (SPL meter held with an outstretched arm where your ears would be with the microphone pointing forward at a 45 degree up angle) with the meter set to "C" weighting and slow.This means the scale is set at 90 and the needle will move above and below the "0" mark but your eyes+brain should be able to approximate an average over time at the "0" mark. Set in the fast mode, the needle moves too quickly to approximate any kind of SPL average.
This will probably be quite loud, and hopefully should not produce distortion or compression (if your speakers and amps are up to the task).
Just as some supporting reference material for loudness levels at the listening position, when properly calibrated, a home theater system should produce a volume level of 95dB SPL from the main speakers without distortion or compression.
I know yours is 2-channel but the same rules apply and yes, this is loud.
bstan
...if you are using music as test signal retest using the fast mode on the meter. If you are not achieving transient peaks of well over 100dB on music something is definitely wrong. The math alone says your system should be capable of 109 dB peaks on music. Slow mode averages the signal and yields a depressed result that can be very misleading with music. I'd only use the slow mode with steady state test signals.If you still test low under these conditions I'd look at a few things:
1. Have you tried other speakers with your system? Borrow a pair of bookshelf speakers from a friend or dealer and see if the problem happens with them too. If not, the speakers and amp are probably not a good match. If the problem happens with the other speakers the problem is with the amp, preamp or source.
2. Have you tried alternate sources? Do you have the same problem if you try cd or dvd rather than analog, for example? If it only happens with analog there may be a gain issue wtih the preamp / cartridge combination you are using. If you dont have a cd or DVD player borrow one from a friend and try it as a source and see if the problem still occurs.
3. Have you confirmed that the preamp is set-up and working properly? Diable all surround modes and digital processing and check any user adjustable gain settings if there are any. If the problem still occurs borrow a preamp and substitute it for yours and see if the problem persists.
4. Borrow and substitue a different amp for yours to see if that cures the problem. Alternately, take your amp to a dealer (ideally one who sells your speakers) are try it on their system to see if it is working correctly.
5. As has already been suggested check that your speakers are connected with the same polarity. But thats pretty obvious so I doubt its the problem. One thing it might be is if the speakers are biwireable the woofers may be out of polarity or wired incorrectly internally. I once bought a pair of Von Schweikert VR6s that came from the factory with the woofers in one cabinet wired out of phase. The mid tweeters were wired correctly so they would image correctly but the speakers made no bass and lacked impact. If you biwire, make sure all connections are correct with particular emphasis on the woofer connections and check the polarity of the woofers by testing them with a D cell to see if they all move in the same direction.
6. Recheck every connection in the system as well as all control settings. And since you use a surround sound preamp I'd be very suspicous of it as a potential source of difficulty. Given the way surround sound processors usually manage volume compared to pure analog 2 channel preamps I'd make sure that all the gain setting here were correct.
Whatever you do, find out whats wrong before buying anything. This system should put out very high SPLs and either it is and the measurement is incorrect or there is something fundamentally wrong somewhere. If the problem is in the preamp or source buying new speakers and amps is only going to result in you being poorer while still suffering the same problem.
joe
I tried fast response at 3' away with the meter playing differance records. I get up to 99db spikes. At 9' away its up to 90db. At the 12:00 position.
Someone told me Im getting feed back. My turntable is only 2' behind and to the right of my right speaker. Was told to place all my source equipment across the room. I posted this question on Cable forum. Ill keep trying those other things you mentioned. Checking into it. Thank you most kindly for your help. :)
For sure try again with a CD player. Even better if you find one with variable outputs and bypass preamp completely. I am pretty sure problem is related to turntable picking up vibrations from speakers and/or record wrap. Do you know beyond a doubt that the suspension is set up properly on your Linn? I would suspect that big time. Is it possible your cartridge suspension is worn out or a poor match for your table/arm? I know Grado's don't get along with my Thorens and the problem is much worse if the tables suspension isn't perfect-which btw is a big pain to adjust.Russ
My LP12 was adjusted by my local dealer and even had a few springs replaced. Im in dire need of a Circus upgrade. My springs creak when i do the bounce test. Also the cart im using isnt even made anymore. 1995. I know i need to throw money into the Linn. Ill do that CD test next. Thanks for the help
Glad to help in anyway I can. I have been going through the same stuff with a recently acquired Thorens table and your post sounded so familiar I had to comment. Careful adjusting of the springs and a new cartridge made all the difference in the world. In addition to the bounce test makes sure it moves side to side freely too. For what it is worth I was using a Grado and switched to an Audio Technia 440ML. Not quite as warm but at $99 bucks for a micro line stylus the price was right. Tracks great and no low frequency rumble when I crank it up. Classic rock demands volume at times....like when the lady of the house ain't around...lol. Keep on spinning cuz vinyl is dead.Take care,
RussPS Try a wall mounted shelf. Think low mass and ridgid.
Do you have a cd player or have you tried one as a source yet? That will answer the feedback issue real quick. Even if you have to use a walkman type player with an adapter cord.And on the turntable front - of course there is also the subsonic question. If the Grado / arm combo are incompatible you could be using all the power putting out subsonic info. Do you see lots of random woofer pumping - I mean big visible excursions for which you dont hear a corresponding sound? This is also a frequency region where the Rat Shack meter is notoriously unreliable so it could be missing it...
joe
I agree with you. I think your speakers are the problem - they are distorting at higher volumns.Why don't you just get the GR speakers first and try them in your current set-up. I bet you will be quite pleased with the improvement.
If you can be happy listening to volumns in the 70-80 range, the Waves may work for you (you certainly won't have to worry about 100db levels though).
The best use of the RS meter for me was to use it with the Stereophile test CD (cheap) that has the different frequency tones. Within the limitations of the meter, I was able to find several frequency spikes and dips that I could eliminate with some room treatments and speaker position changes (it is amazing the difference that subtle changes can make). I think that it is a useful tool to achieve a little flatter responce.
Just for general interest, the RS analogue meter can be modified
to give a flatter low frequency response. Seehttp://www.gti.net/wallin/audio/rsmeter/33-2050/33-2050.html
I bought the meter a couple of years ago and immediately carried
out these mods - they involve substituting a dozen or so small
electrolytic capacitors with larger values, and are pretty
straightforward to do.Alex
nt
nt
nt
If you got the cheapest Rat Shack meter available, I think I know what the problem is...The mic in that unit SUCKS.
Try listening to the output on it, there's no low end at all, so it's not measuring the entire spectrum of sound your speakers are putting out, or at least that's my only explanation for the unusually low readings from it.
--jeff
I would advise the original poster to play pure tones (like on a Stereophile CD), and record the values for use with an SPL correction chart. While the link in the FAQ no longer works, a search on Google will turn up plenty.
I guess that would explain it. It only cost $25 and the digital meter was twice that. Still doesnt sound all that loud to me anyways. Not like AC/DC rock music on Cerwin Vegas at concert levels anyways hehe
Some while back I had a chance to check a Radio Shack meter against a General Radio meter. The Radio Shack was low by 2 dB. So I doubt if that's the problem. C weighting does still have some bass and treble attenuation, but not all that much. But at 92 dB that's the right weighting to use for perceived loudness. Something else is wrong. You have 5 channels, is something out of phase and causing cancellations? That would cause low overall levels, and the amp and speakers straining their guts out.
Im beginning to think its just my speakers. They are lean and shielded kind. Made for home theatre in 1994. Im measuring them when in stereo mode while listening to a record.
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors: