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I'm sort of a newbie to speakers and higher end stuff so work with me.I'm in need of a "budget" <$500 pair of speakers (my budget can go above that though) to be used in a stereo setup and later in a home theater surround sound rig. I've been hearing quite a bit about the GR Paradoxes here and so I'm putting them in the same pit with the other candidates: the Axiom M22tis and Monitor Audio Bronze 2s.
Assuming for some reason that I went with a set of GRs, my budget would preferrably allow myself to a pair of Paradox 1+s or the A/V 1+s.
From what I can tell, the only difference between these two is that the Paradoxes act as a full range while the A/Vs cut off the lower end so they can be easily combined with a sub woofer without the aid of some other device. My questions are as follow:
1). I don't know what it is that is normally done to cut off the low end of the main speakers so that they can be combined with a sub, wether it be some component, device or DIY stuff (it seems like to not cut it off would result in it interfering with the subs job and therefore making the overall low end seem bloated).
2) Is the A/Vs automatic cutting off of the low end more intended for conveniance purposes? In other words, will I get better results in getting the Paradoxes with whatever modifications I need to make in my budget or overall system to cut off its low end.
3) Also on the GR site is stuff about a Raven tweeter which they seem to think is the best thing since a microwave. If its going to be a long time (perhaps near the end of spring) before I have the money to get any pair of speakers (I've also gotta save up for the rest of the system), am I better waiting to see what becomes of these Raven kits before I decide on either the Paradoxes or A/Vs?
4) Is this low end thing the ONLY difference between the Paradoxes and A/Vs? If not, what are they?
There it is. Sorry if its a little long for a simple question, but I've been having difficulty getting answers on other matters, and wanted to make sure I didn't miss nothing. If it means anything, I would have to get these speakers assembled with an enclosure considering my inexpierience. If you have any comments on wether the Paradoxes or A/Vs would be supurior to either the M22tis or Bronze 2s, or think I can do better then the GRs, please let me know.Thank you for ANY information. Peace.
Follow Ups:
> From what I can tell, the only difference between these two is that the Paradoxes act as a full range while the A/Vs cut off the lower end so they can be easily combined with a sub woofer without the aid of some other device. My questions are as follow:
The Paradox series and the A/V series use the same woofers and have or can have the same low end roll off. How low they play and how steeply they roll off is determined by the enclosure size and the port length.
1). I don't know what it is that is normally done to cut off the low end of the main speakers so that they can be combined with a sub, wether it be some component, device or DIY stuff (it seems like to not cut it off would result in it interfering with the subs job and therefore making the overall low end seem bloated).
These speaker were designed to be used with subs. The low end response is held very flat as long as possible then it falls rather steeply at about an 18 to 20db per octave rate.What this means is you don't have to electronically remove the lows from them. I just hate putting things like that in the signal path too. The natural steep slope keeps them from interfering with the sub-woofer. Just set the sub to cover from about 50Hz on down.
2) Is the A/Vs automatic cutting off of the low end more intended for conveniance purposes?
It was designed this way to maximize performance and sub-woofer integration.
> In other words, will I get better results in getting the Paradoxes with whatever modifications I need to make in my budget or overall system to cut off its low end.
Again both of these designs will roll off the same (see above statements).Only our Paradox-3's that play down lower and make blending them with a sub (which they really don't need for most music) a little more tricky.
3) Also on the GR site is stuff about a Raven tweeter which they seem to think is the best thing since a microwave. If its going to be a long time (perhaps near the end of spring) before I have the money to get any pair of speakers (I've also gotta save up for the rest of the system), am I better waiting to see what becomes of these Raven kits before I decide on either the Paradoxes or A/Vs?
All the Raven kits on our site were actually custom designs, and due to the sensitive nature of the Raven tweeters any speaker we send out using them really needs to have the network tweaked for each desin.
4) Is this low end thing the ONLY difference between the Paradoxes and A/Vs? If not, what are they?
The tweeters are the big difference.The A/V series kits use our soft dome tweeter. It's more forgiving than the Focal tweeter. It's a softer smoother sound. It sounds more natural to me with string instruments and vocals. It's also less sensitive to room placement and room brightness.
The Focal tweeter sounds more natural with the brass section to me. Symbols sound more natural as well. They are a better match for many tube amps that can be a little soft and laid back in the highs. They are more sensitive to room interaction, and do not match well with bare, empty, or overly bright rooms.
They both sound really good just suited towards different applications and each with its own strengths.
Danny Richie
GR Research
Why does the AV1 have the tweeter inverted?
I assume you mean why is the tweeter below the woofer.The one pictured uses a first order crossover. Using the first order network it needs the tweeter under the woofer to have a polar tilt that puts the image into the center of the room, and have a smooth response with no dips from seated to standing position. It's part of the physical driver alignment issue.
It's the opposite with the new series network. It needs the tweeter over the woofer.
I need to get some new pics and some new info up on the web site. I have just not had time.
Danny Richie
...So I can listen to the music with my back facing the speakers....It'll bring out an extra-ordinary amount of detail that you never knew existed!!! Even with crappy amp & sources!!!OK, seriously, Focal designs it that way because they think it's more efficient. Here's the link:
http://www.focal.tm.fr/gb/home/electra/tek/Tweeter.htm
From your previous statement you say that the Paradox's are more suitable for tube amps because of the metal dome tweeters. Another guy on here built the A/V-1's saying that they sounded better to him. Maybe cause he has a solid state system? This is the system im building:Foreplay PreAmp
WAV-8 tubeamps
Linn LP12 turntableUsing AQ interconnects and speaker cables currently. Thinking of upgrading to HR or Analysis Oval cables. Not sure which will balance well.
Thank you most kindly.
It is true that the Paradox series kits are a better match with most tube amps because many of them tend to be a little laid back and soft on the top end.But, the A/V series kits also sound great on tube amps. We drive them with our tubes and pure class A amps everyday.
As for the system you are looking at:
That little 8 watt amp will drive our Paradox-1 or A/V-1 to only moderate levels. It may cut it for you if you have a really small room.
Our Paradox-1+ or A/V-1+ (the MTM versions) will give you the stronger sensitivity you need to get good solid output levels with that amp, but only if that amp is capable of handling the lower 4 ohm impedance load of those two designs.
Either our Paradox-3 or A/V-3 might be a better choice in that it will give you the higher sensitivity and the higher 8 ohm impedance that I am sure that amp will prefer.
These two designs are really the jewels yet to be discovered by the Asylum members and could be considered by some to be among our best kits. These are also much better models to be used as a stand alone pair without the need for a sub.
Danny Richie
From looking at the spec of the A/V-3 the Sensitivity at 91db is the same at A/V-1. Because its a 8ohm speaker it more efficeint?
Also, if i go that route I will have to make or have made the speaker cabinets. Can I get speaker enclosure plans? Thank you for your time. :)
Actually the sensitivity of the A/V-1 is only 88db.The A/V-1+ is 91db.
CAD type drawings of the enclosure come with the kit. I can email them to you in advance if you like.
Danny Richie
All this time Ive been referring to the A/V-1+.
Says its rated at 91db. Lets back up a bit then. Will the A/V-1+ with 4ohm and 91 sensitivity be a good match for WAV-8 10watt mono tube amps with 8ohm output.
Wonder if I can change speakers or tubeamps to be compatible.
I am not real familiar with that amp.10 watts is easily enough to drive them to good solid levels in a small to medium sized room. I don't know how well that particular amp will like the 4 ohm load. I would ask the amplifier manufacturer.
Our 8 watt Dodd Amp drives them pretty easy with no problems at all.
Gary Dodd even has a pair of A/V-1+'s that he uses as a reference speaker and he has driven them with the 8 watt amp as well with no problem. He also said it was producing steady 100db levels in his listening room.
Danny Richie
See my post earlier today comparing GR P1 to Axion 3ti. IMHO, the GR is better is every regard.(I own both.)
Hi,
Have you considerd building the Paradox 3's?If you can build the box its quite reasonable.Its a great speaker and unless your really into HT you won't need a sub any time soon.Just a thought
have fun
chris
Why don't you contact Danny Richie at GR Research. Go to their website and follow the contact links. Your questions are fairly specific to the GR Product Line, and I think he may be the only one to give you decent answers.
Cut-Throat
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