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I like to get suggestions on some speakers that will reveal everything without mercy.I live in a beautiful but very quiet condo so I listen to my music at low volumes. I already own a very revealing amp (Sim I-5) so I like to complement it with some revealing speakers.
Follow Ups:
...at low to moderate volumes, a little sense of "full-bodied" would be desirable in the long run, no? (If I'm wrong, it'll be the first time...lol). How 'bout Vandies? Have fun in your search...
It can as "ruthlessly revealing" is often used as a synonym for "bright" word which is the lable that ALL manufactureres fear like the plague! I think that most in this thread are thinking that when mesh has asked for ruthlessly revealing, he asking for speakers that are excellent in low level resolution and microdynamic abilities to ensure he does not miss any nuances in the music while listening at lower volumes.To me, a speaker that has excess energy/output/ragged/resonant response in the upper mids generally sounds bright (from what I've learned over the years this often around the crossover region and we are hearing driver colorations/resonances, poor driver integration [selection], poor crossover design, etc.). It IS possible to build a speaker that does not have these issues and such a speaker will have loads of resolution, body, liquidity, macro & microdynamic abilities without sounding bright. A very good speaker that is ruthlessly revealing will not editorialize or impose its own signature, giving a very clear & natural window of the equipment upstream and the music.
That's my 2 cents...
Rich Brkich
Rich Brkich,You make sense, as always. My thought on the phrase in question, especially as it pertains to the original poster's intention: drop "ruthless" and just describe the speaker as "revealing." Pretty much says the same thing without the negative spin.
BTW, I remember dropping into your place several years ago. It was a long trip for me and my friend, but I really appreciated the hospitality that you showed us, let alone the wonderful sound and music. You definitely know how to pick great products. (We listened to the VR-4.5s, specially tweaked version).
Are you still in the same place?
Later,
Rich H.
Yep, Rich.... still at the same old place plugging away. For me, it continues to be the best way to do business. I also help out the Asylum some too as its Industry Liaison.
Rich Brkich
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and infer that what you really want is a speaker that lets you hear everything that's going on without having to turn the volume way up.The most critical elements in getting high resolution are, first, an extremely lightweight, articulate tweeter that easily traces complex waveforms and second, freedom from boxy resonances and colorations that blur the decay of the notes. These requirements point us towards ribbons and electrostats. In my experience electrostats are the most articulate at very low volume levels, so if you have the room for it, I'd suggest you consider Quads or InnerSounds or Acoustats or Martin CLS's (I own and sell another brand of electrostat, so I do like the breed). You might also consider Maggies for their utter freedom from boxiness, though they tend to sound their best at medium and higher volumes - at low volumes, a good electrostat will be more revealing. If you don't have the room for a dipole, then consider the monopole Newform Research speakers.
In a smaller, more conventional speaker, you might consider the little Red Rose R-3 and the Cliffhanger Bulldog. Both use a very nimble, articulate ribbon tweeter and have very low levels of boxy coloration.
Good luck!
nt
Best low-level listening speaker I've heard is the Harbeth Compact 7 which seemed to defy the Flether-Munson curve. Bass was full and true at very low levels. How they do that??
Thanks for your contribution. I had consider the Newform but wasn't sure whether they were particularly revealing or not. Their 630 looks really attractive both from spec and price.
Mesh -Thank you for your kind words!
I'm a dealer (that's what the "D" after my name above stands for), but for about 20 years I was an amateur speaker builder who secretly wanted to go commercial. I never quite came up with a speaker of my own that would be competetive against the best in a given price range, and so never went into production. I did, however, learn a few things along the way (or at least I like to think so). Anyway a couple of years ago I quit my old job (used to run a small oil company) and started selling audio gear, something I'd never even considered doing before. I love it! I only sell stuff I really believe in, which sometimes makes it hard to post here because the etiquette forbids dealers pushing their own products. But the brands I mentioned in my reply to your question are brands I think well of even if I don't sell them.
If you go with the Newforms (I'm more familiar with the R645's than the R630's), plan on upgrading the capacitors. This isn't as scary as it sounds, and makes a significant improvement. And owner John Meyers is a true gentleman to deal with. Do a search of the Planar Asylum and you'll see that the Newforms have a very extensive and loyal following, but that they aren't everyone's cup of tea (I have yet to meet the speaker that is!).
Best wishes to you on your quest!
Duke LeJeune
AudioKinesis
i think that speakers which are capable of revealing the nature of the other components in the chain accurately are neutral. unfortunately if you have an amp, pre-amp, cables or inter-connect which are not many people blame the speaker. while i believe that there are speakers that hype up the upper mid range and/or base, i think that many more speakers than not a neutral if driven properly. i vote for dynaudio and quad.
You will hear all of the information presented to them in a musically consonant manner.
nt
ML's 'stat panels can be almost hyper-detailed. If you have a flaw in the system or recording, you'll hear it through these speakers. They are certainly not very forgiving, but I still love 'em.
Regards, Jerry O.
Check out Dunlavy's. They are very accurate. Their fabric dome tweeter tells all, yet is smooth and pleasant unless the recording is bad. The speakers are very accurate and tonally pure. The sound is quite clean especially the bass. Their only problem is they aren't ported so you need a lot of speaker and money for bass extension. Of course it is this lack of a port that gives them the clean bass.
A watercolor or pastel, to my ears. And actually, I like watercolors. But if you want rich oils, it'll take something else. Harbeths, from what some of you say - the big Talons, from some others of you say - the big Soundlabs.
What? I A/B'd the Talon Korus and some Dunlavy's. Same amp, source, room, placement, cables. The Dunlavy SC-IVA SMOKED the Talons in soundstage and imaging. I'm not familiar first hand with the Harbeths or big Soundlabs.
Okay, I'm happy to withdraw the Talons - as I said, I had them in there on hearsay, actually from a pretty dependable source. Wish I could get around more! I have a Dunlavy problem which I probably should stop inflicting on people. There is something in their overall presentation that strike me as unnaturally thin 'n' lean. REG, for whom the Monitor 40's are the reference, actually likes the Altheas a good deal, though it did find them a bit tipped up. I can't believe that "tipped up" was all that I heard "wrong," but maybe that's enough to affect the overall balance enough to turn me off. I think of them as being flat to a fault. And I think of live music as being tipped down, if anything, crooked.
.
So far from what I've heard I think the Dynaudio the Contour 1.8MKII was pretty revealing. Way too much revealing for my taste.The most revealing speaker I've heard so far is the Dynaudio Confidence 3. Soooooooo much revealing it was not musical at all.
I had for a while the Moon I-5 paired with Totem Model One Signature and it wasn't that much revealing. Maybe paired with the Merlin VSM-ME would be what you are looking for.
I've been searching for honest (read revealing) speakers the last couple of months and guess what, there are not many. The most revealing I could find are the ones I'm going to buy. It's studio monitors from German Klein + Hummel, model O 500 C. US distributor isThe P.I.E. Group
16101 Bald Eagle School Road
Brandywine, MD 20613
Phone: +1/ 301-888-2426
Fax: +1/ 301-888-2427
thepie@starband.net
If you follow the link, they provide info in English. Click on "professional monitoring" and download their catalogue.Price in Germany is about $5,600...per piece.
Klaus
very interesting speakers.
I find my nOrh marble 7.0's to be exceedingly revealing. I imagine the 9.0's would be even more so.This is the main gripe I have with them, making some discs unlistenable.
I'd suggest that you consider auditioning some line-source transducers. (I personally use Soundlines, but others to investigate would be Newforms or maybe BG's Radia series.) I feel that line sources tend to be very transparent and revealing (even at low volume levels), but in a very natural, musical, and nonfatiguing way. They might also be less problematic than planars in terms of room size/placement issues. Good listening!
I just "spoke" with someone in Montreal who asked if ET LFT VIII's were "laid back". My opinion is that they are not, nor are they ruthlessly revealing either. Couldn't remember your opinion.The Montreal gent was asking about the tweeter mod (adding the capacitor) to get more high frequency; I've not done so, and don't feel any overwhelming urge to do so.
Your thoughts appreciated.By the way, I offered that you would ship your ET's to Montreal for a 2 year audition with full refund priveleges. Was that a BAD thing???
Hi Bruce. Yeah, I found the ET LFT-VIIIA's to be a bit (but just a bit) laid back at the extreme top end in my room and with my gear. However, this was pretty much completely corrected in my case by using silver speaker wires and interconnects. Silver plus the cap mod was a bit over the top, IME.
I came across some speakers that had very open and transparent midrange but the highs are somewhat too silky for my taste. I like to get that razor sharp extension when a metal guitar string is plucked, it is just personal taste I guess.
David,
I was always puzzled at the term "ruthlessly revealing" as a complimentary term. I'm gonna vote for "lovingly revealing" but don't have much hope of its adoption.Bruce
Hi,KRELL LAT 2, SONUS FABER GUARNERI HOMAGE, JM LAB MINI/MICRO UTOPIA.
Tomer Tsin
My vote for you would be the Joseph Audio RM22si signiture. Wonderfully accurate and sweet sounding speakers, especially at lower volumes.
Cetaele (aka "bob")
It's all about the music.
Anyone know first hand??
i think the Dynaudios are great speakers, but I wouldn't consider them to be the most revealing speakers out there. I also don't think they perform best until mid to high volumes, which may not fit your listening environment.
Cetaele (aka "bob")
Thanks.
my vote goes to merlin vsm-ms.why:
1) incredible at low to moderate listening volumes--perfect coherence & tonally neutral, while being FAST AS HELL.
2) small footprint & not terribly heavy as per other recommended speakers---work well w/ small to mid size rooms (mine is 15*25*8)
3) great w/ Sim Audio (see the past few stereophiles: one excellent full review, and one brief mention at the great sound they got at a show w/ Sim gear)
4) best microdynamics of just about any dynamic speaker on the mkt.
5) work well w/ all music (20hz excluded)
6) ruthless. but if you treat them right upstream, they're tough to beat anywhere near the price.who the heck can fit maggies in a condo???
rhyno
Man, you sold me.
I got to find a pair to check out.
BTW, I hope the TSM are pretty good in the revealing department since they're a lot cheaper and I don't care for bass.Thanks.
give bobby at merlin a call-- he can fill you in on where you can audition them.i personally haven't heard the TSMs, but they're the same drivers, design principles/goals & loving-adoration-craftsmanship built into them, for a very reasonable price (by high end stds).
from what i've read (and i've read a LOT), the only diff b/w the TSM & VSM is below @ 55hz. the revealing quality, as are all the superlatives associated w/ the VSMs, are a given.
sounds like the TSMs would be just fine for you. email me if you have further questions, and check out the reviews on merlins web site.
rhyno
They look different somehow.
The TSM and VSM use different drivers, though they are similar. Both speakers used soft (silk) dome tweeters (a Morel MDT-30 in the TSM and the Dynaudio Esotar in the VSM) and pulp cone based woofers (treated pulp Morel in the TSM and the carbon fiber impregnated Scan Speak 8545 in the VSM).BTW, have been using the TSM-M with the SimAudio Moon I-5 for the past few weeks with very good results.
Rich Brkich
Seen them (and most importantly), heard them, love them.
They get my vote for next purchase (regardless of WAF/SO) if/when my Dahlquists ever die (been through hell and back so far!). GREAT SOUND for the size!!!!
Dman
Hi Mesh, this URL will give a description of the Lorelei driver.
Tyler Acoustics 7Us are very revealing and 92dB efficient. Though a fairly large speaker (46x9x10), I use them in a small room and the
bass is tight and controlled, with no bloat, overhang or room-loading (front ported). They will tell you about the quality of your ancillary equipment.
From what I've read this is a very detailed/neutral/analytical speaker that would probably be perfect for your situation.Soundstage Review:
http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/revel_performa_m20.htm
Been shopping for speakers lately myself. Meadowlark Shearwaters sounded real nice with my Sim I-5. Also the Meadowlark Heron-I, Wilson-Benesch Actors, Proac 2.5.
Be sure to audition Magneplanar!
I think Maggies can indeed be ruthlessly revealing, but are not appropriate for a small condo.
Cetaele (aka "bob")
The Babb Lorelei L6 reveals everything including natural speed. Once you listen, you may trade your amp in for a single ended design as the Babbs are the most relentless when it comes to revealing. Enjoy.
Does these guys make speakers or just drivers?
I'm confused when looking thru their website.
They have been building drivers since the 70's in Texas and made a tremendous invasion into Canada about 1984ish and then tailed off. I've been using them ever since. They are finally moving into the home market. They have a cabinet with the Lorelei L6. There is some serious pioneering work in these and move the state of the art ahead by 50 years IMHO. Email Alan Babb and he will get you more info.
The speakers in the photo were built in 1985. The original drivers were designed by Burt Babb, he is still with the company.
Just about anything they make.Oz
Yeah, the Cubs are exactly that. Can't stand it since I listen to a lot of mediocre recordings.
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