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In Reply to: Re: Anyone in this thread even realize these are isobarik? posted by RGA on May 7, 2007 at 02:09:37:
Let's face it: you don't really like monitor type speakers, which makes sense since you are a bass freak. So your advice really amounts to suggesting that Oli consider larger speakers--which several of us have already suggested."but the Mani-2 is completely outclassed."
Not every one thinks so. Now, we do have good measurements of one AN speaker easily available. The $12,000 Audio Note E AN-E Lexus Signatures have a big peak in the lower midrange and a mild depression between 1 and 3 kHz with some roughness, and a peak at 10 kHz (high enough not to matter much), along with mediocre horizontal dispersion. But, it evidently does most of what *you* want it to do.
Bass response in a room is highly dependent on the room acoustics, speaker placement, and listener placement. I have heard the Totem Mani-2 Signatures in a normal listening room and the bass response was excellent. And they sounded great.
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"Opposition brings concord. Out of discord comes the fairest harmony."
------Heraclitus of Ephesis (fl. 504-500 BC), trans. Wheelwright.
Follow Ups:
Firslty the speaker was not measured for its intended position which will seriously effect the end result. You should know that but so should Stereophile's editor - the last technical editor they had does know which is why his results were significantly different.I am not a bass freak but I do like good sounding bass with cohesiveness - and I like it to be textured and dynamic like the rest of the sound.
I know several Totem owners who went to AN and none the other way -- but then unlike you I have done comparisons and actually listened to the speakers rather than guess what it "might" be like when I read the graph of speakers not set-up properly.
I have heard the Mani-2 several times set-up by people who know what they're doing. Including an ex-owner of them. They are good loudspeakers - but I would gladly run a preference based blind session againt the Mani-2 any day.
Corner placement will affect the deep bass response of the $12,000 AN-E Lexus Signature, but the lower end below about 400 Hz will still be elevated, and there still be a mild depression between 1 and 3 kHz with some roughness, and a peak at 10 kHz (high enough not to matter much), along with mediocre horizontal dispersion. As Art Dudley, who also liked the speaker, said, "But people who are sensitive to departures from perfectly flat frequency response should consider themselves forewarned."
____________________________________________________
"Opposition brings concord. Out of discord comes the fairest harmony."
------Heraclitus of Ephesis (fl. 504-500 BC), trans. Wheelwright.
Well Yeah and the AN E is not perfect - you makes your trades. If for example you want to chuck out all sense of "live" sound for dynamic ineptness like many standmounts and any sense of powerful dynamic bass then yes you can seek perfectly flat frequency response - but none of the Harman Toole Totem Paradigm are perfectly flat. Like anything - to get the more marketable graphs something else gets traded. And what many of these others trade is so vast that it isn't worth it.The only way to really determine if one can tell what is doing a good job is by listening to the speakers in question in the same room. Frequency response is one aspect. Horizontal dispersion is funny but then having heard them - you can sit anywhere you wish and the sound does not fall apart like say the free standing designs of a B&W or Paradigm.
But of course this simply goes nowhere because a person who buys into the Paradigm Studio 20 kind of thing and has not directly compared the AN's is going to look for the graphs to prove whatever point he is trying to prove. Not really sure since there is no evidence of "preference of audible superiority" in the graphs - even Stereophile's editor doing the measurements states that (and he has read the Harman marketing blather).
And even if we ran a double blind level matched preference based test with 100 of the world's most accomplished classically trained musicians and even if 90 of them chose the AN or 90 of them chose the Totem that would still leave the remaining 10 who chose the other. And sure if we go by probable likely-hoods (which is a joke) then we might assume by reading such tests that we would be in the 90 camp -- but then again we may not be and then it's science by probablity which isn't very useful).
The question for me is simple - one sounds like realistic live music and one sounds a lot more like some woofers in a box, boxy sounding, thin, and it is not "perfectly flat" either, and has an upper treble issue that is audible in a bad way. How many dealers carry Audio Note and Totem? Soundhounds - how does each sell when compared to eachother? And Soundhounds carries Sim Audio which supposedly is the right amp choice going by this thread. Yeah But you Patd may still choose the Totem -- in fact you have read the graph first so your mind is made up before you walk in. And looking at the list of the speakers you have heard and think are the best I think I get it.
I have met some people in my life that if their friend tells them that Joe is a a big jerk that they will take their friend's word for it and Joe will be a jerk in their eyes too. And their friend probably provided "evidence" of why Joe is a jerk to boot - only maybe it was their friend all along that had the problem and the the "evidence" wasn't infallible.The reason I suggest the AN E or J is because when the speaker is placed in the corner the biggest differences are in the midrange not the bass. The Bass is deepened yes of course but supposedly no affects will occur in the lower midrange up -- but the midrange is affected for the better. And of course bass is an issue for the original poster - will the AN E have enough SLAM maybe not so he would need a much larger loudspeaker - but if we're talking standmounts the J or E has more.
The J in fact I would be quite comfortable running up against the Wilson Sophia or N802 in terms of bass depth. The other two will play louder though but then they cost 4 times as much and have more problems.
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