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Feel free to say "I told you so" but just realize I have been kicking myself more than you all will ever realize. And, to think, I was considering purchasing the Watt Puppy 8's in Q4 2007. Unless this situation immediately improves with either the dealer or the manufacturer, that will NEVER occur.The 7" driver of the left speaker in my VERY expensive speakers went out without notice. The speakers had been operating eratically for a few weeks, and then without notice, the 7" driver on the left speaker went out. And, when I say "went out", I mean there is nothing there. My hat is off to my contact at Wilson Audio who has been receptive so far, by stating, "Let me know if your local dealer does not resolve this issue and I will be all over them." The problem is my local dealer is very difficult to deal with. I work full-time, and they will not accomodate my time frames for diagnosing the speaker issue (which is evident that it is the 7" driver). The dealer wants to visit me no earlier than 9:30 a.m. in the morning on select days (Tuesday - Friday) or later in the morning. I have to be at work by 8:00 a.m., and cannot return home until after 5:00 p.m. I have requested Saturday accomodation and they refuse, although this is a normal business day for them. For other accomodations, I must take a day of vacation, and this dealer has stood me up on three occasions (3 vacations days to waste).
How would you handle? Check my profile for the specific spaker manufacturer.
Follow Ups:
"My hat is off to my contact at Wilson Audio who has been receptive so far, by stating, 'Let me know if your local dealer does not resolve this issue and I will be all over them.'"There's the problem. Unless the manufacturer is based in a foreign country handled by an importer, I would only deal with repair issues directly with the manufacturer. If the manufacturer then keeps insisting to do this through the dealer, I'd tell them up front if they cannot deal with the issue directly, I'll take the product back to the dealer and demand a refund. End of story.
For gear in this price range, it's insulting that customers are given the run-around.
I relate my own hi fi disappointment above.http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/speakers/messages/248633.html
You canceled out on appointments and then post this whining
snivel?
D.D. mom is a, well....woman.
Those two fact patterns are not a matter of differing interpretations.
- This signature is two channel only -
.
Have you figured it out why the driver went south?Was it a defective unit from the start or something else was causing it?
The reason I asked is that a long time ago, one of the tweeters started to misbehave on my WATT.
I thought I damaged the tweeters somehow but later found out that it was a preamp causing the problem.
I recall, both my dealer/Wilsons were quick to respond to the problem and they sent the replacement tweeters overnight. (impressive service )
Needless to say, I felt rather foolish that the problem wasn't the speakers.
Any rate, I hope you'll have your problem sorted out but I would make sure what caused it in the first place so you don't have to go through the same trouble again.
Sorry but.. I just can not figure out how a +10K usd speaker can have this sort of failure.... unacceptable from any perspective (if not misuse was in the chain).I hope you can arrange a date to contact your dealer and have it fixed, congrats on your new speaker.
Hi Kuma,It is indeed the speaker. I connected another pair of speakers, and they operated perfectly. When I spoke with Wilson, they suggested that I connect the left speaker to the right speaker channel and see if this corrected the problem (the problem would then indicate issues with the amp). I did so and the speaker's issue was reproduced.
Thus far, I have nothing but praise for Wilson Audio. The Wilson Audio representative I spoke with was professional, courteous, sympathetic and genuinely concerned about this issue. We discussed the 7" driver's erratic performance (working/not working) prior to it stopping performance altogether. He offered possible causes of the issue, stating it could be a resistor (a fairly simple repair), or the driver (not as simple of a repair as the resistor). The Wilson representative stated that he also owned a pair of Wilson Audio Sophia Series II speakers and would have been disappointed as well if he had experienced problems within the first 6 months of ownership. I did receive a voicemail from my dealer stating that they were ordering a resistor, and would begin there in diagnosing the problem.
To clarify my original post, my primary complaints are: (1) My local dealers reluctance to accomodate my work schedule in order to provide diagnosis and repair services; (2) Having an issue with such an expensive speaker this early in ownership; and (3) A concern whether the dealer can repair correctly (based on prior history), and return the speaker to its originally intended specs and performance. As you are aware, Wilson Audio manufactures these speakers to precise design, build, and performance. Personally, my preference would be that the speaker is repaired at the manufacturer to ensure it is returned to its originally-intended design, spec and performance. If I lived in Utah, I would insist upon it. However, shipping these beasts presents a whole new set of issues.
The other dealers I work with (one local, one in a city about 3 hours away) have always been great in accomodating my work schedule. They have provided demos, equipment setup, and return visits for optimizing/tweaking the equipment during the early morning hours, at/after 5:00 p.m., or on Saturdays. Going forward, I will ensure that the dealers I work with can accomodate my work schedule; this is critical because it is difficult for me to take off work, particularly during certain times of the year (spring/summer).
Thank you for your input,
DDM
nt
________
"Occasionally we list eccentrically, all sense of balance gone."
"The 7" driver of the left speaker in my VERY expensive speakers went out without notice. The speakers had been operating eratically for a few weeks, and then without notice, the 7" driver on the left speaker went out."
have those little slots that spit out daily status reports, warning of impending problems?
"VERY" is funny enough, but in addition I guess she wanted notice by certified mail.
________
"Occasionally we list eccentrically, all sense of balance gone."
Would you care to address the points made by the dealer in his post?
It is interesting to note that you haven't responded to the reply by your dealer?!!! Here you are saying that Wilson is doing a great job, but you don't feel comfortable having them repaired in the field, by your dealer (which apparently after your calls, Wilson still feels comfortable with making the repairs).You say that you question your dealers ability to repair the speaker properly based on past experience? What repairs have they done for you in the past that you base your experience upon?
So far all I see is cranky customer that is badmouthing a dealer for no reason.
"So far all I see is cranky customer that is badmouthing a dealer for no reason. "Did you fail to notice that it was Wilson themselves that she eventually called, thereby bypassing the dealer, IOW The dealers after-sales support is crap.
Cranky after dropping 10Gs on a malfunctioning speaker, you bet! Insisting that the speaker get fixed at base is commonsense and lends for piece of mind, moreso because the dealer seems inept to his responsibilities as purveyor of high value products.
Music making the painting, recording it the photograph
I always pay for every major purchase by credit card. Call your credit card company.......dispute the charges. That will get the dealers attention. I Promise. You will either have a new driver or a refund.
......So you buy some brand new audio gear and after a few months there is an issue, say with a driver of a speaker; what the hell is the CC company going to do about it ?Smile
Your dealer is presenting his side of the story and I'm sure this will have a happy ending. One question though. Why was it not possible to have some friends assist you in putting the loudspeaker in your vehicle and go to the dealer on a Saturday?
Regards,
Geoff
Hi Mary. Mark from AudioConcepts here. Listen, I'm sorry that you are experiencing problems with your Wilson Sophia speakers. You sound terribly agitated and I understand that - but don't worry, we'll get your problem fixed.I feel a need to pipe in here on your forum because you have really bashed my business quite unfairly. I take great pride in being totally customer-service driven, and you have misrepresented the facts and also left out some salient information. First, I must point out that it is simply untrue that we "stood you up on three occasions." We have never stood you up, and never would do so. It's simply bad business as anyone knows. I'm not sure why you're trying to paint such a bad picture of us as we're doing our absolute best to take care of you. As you know, we've scheduled two service appointments, both at your first-choice requested times, and you canceled both. The first one you canceled via e-mail after store hours for an appointment the next morning before store hours. We don't typically check e-mail overnight, so it's a good thing we caught your cancellation in time. We're trying to work with you here, but your last minute cancellations are not helping. The appointment times you then later requested were simply outside of our service hours window - times when either we're closed or it's a Saturday when we need all employees to be in the store, as I'm sure you can understand. We do easily and regularly accommodate customers with 9-5 jobs etc., so, as I've requested with you several times now, please just give us a call to set something up. We've called you several times but you haven't returned our calls - we really need a dialogue to help you, as e-mail clearly isn't doing the job here. OK? And don't worry - -we'll get you taken care of as we do all of our customers.
IDIOT
Yeah-right on.
In the time it took him to dream up that response, he could have been to her house and back.
Another example of why I only buy internet/mail order. I've had my fill of jackass dealers.
Before everyone goes patting the dealer on the back, let's take a closer look at his story. On the one hand, he says "we regularly accommodate customers with 9-5 jobs etc.," but on the other hand, he tacitly concedes he's not about to do anything outside his regular business hours or on Saturdays. Since I don't take the dealer to be offering a Sunday visit, there appears to be a logical disconnect in his position. (It may well be a sound business decision for "all employees to be in the store" on Saturdays to help with sales, but let's not sugar-coat the negative impact it may -- and in this instance, apparently does -- have on people who need help with equipment they've already bought and who have demanding enough jobs that they can afford to buy expensive things like Wilson speakers.)Yes, the dealer's tone is more measured than the irate customer's. And yes, his position has the patina of reasonableness. But when you get by all the platitudes of "being totally customer-service driven" and wanting "to have a dialogue" to "set something up," what is he really offering? Only another service call during his "normal service hours window" as far as I can see -- which he already knows is unworkable.
and was told by the salesman(Gary, I think) that he had better things to do than help me. There was no one in the store and it was a weekday afternoon. I pointed that out and he said he could be doing paperwork in the back. Maybe he thought I was too young to have money(30 years old) or didn't have a job because it was the middle of the day(I work European hours). I never went back in and took all my business to a much better dealer up the road. They only lost about $10k worth of business so maybe they didn't care. I consider them the epitome of what's wrong with high end dealers.
After you get past all the platitudes, he is not offering much, "normal service hours window", and "normal service hours" do not include a Saturday as he needs all hands on deck in the shop. One thing stands out very clearly in his post, his after sales service is very poor.
Music making the painting, recording it the photograph
Obviously. He's not the one inconvenienced by this whole mess.IMNSHO, simply replace the friggin' speaker and be done with it. Take any other issues up with the manufacturer.
I'm sure the sdealer has some sort of business relationship that will allow crediting accounts and all that busuiness like stuff, no? So, a few dollars in float for a week or two shouldn't kill him, should it?
"I take great pride in being totally customer-service driven". . . some think otherwise.
Hi Mark:Thank you for your response. Since I do not deal with you on 99% of my transactions (as you know, I deal with Gary) and only have had a few conversations with you during my 7-year relationship with Audio Concepts, I am curious if you are aware of my side of the issues.
First, it is a fact that Audio Concepts (Gary or Byron) has cancelled appointments late (by email only) or failed to meet for an arranged appointment time. The most recent incident occurred in early December 2006. On 12/05/06 at 9:52 a.m., I received an email from Gary stating that Byron would be at my home on the morning of 12/07/06. On 12/06, I called AC and confirmed the appointment. During the evening of 12/6/06, Gary emailed me (5:11 p.m.) and stated that he should have checked with Byron and not just the schedule regarding tomorrow's (12/07) appointments. He stated that both he and Byron had appointments. Gary did not call me on my cell phone and discuss this with me or call and leave a voicemail. I was traveling on businesss during 12/06, and did not return home until late. When Byron failed to show for our morning appointment on 12/07/06, I checked my cell phone to see if I had missed a call from Gary or Byron that morning. I do not have any other telephone #s (Gary's cell, etc) to contact. I then (12/07) checked email and saw Gary's email from the prior evening. This was an inconvenience which could have been resolved by a telephone/voicemail from Gary the day prior. I would be happy to discuss the other 2 occasions; I have documentation to support these occurrences.
Second, I did not cancel two established appointments with Gary. On 04/17 at 8:44 p.m., I emailed Gary about the issue with the Wilson speakers. On 04/18 at 11:56 a.m., I emailed Gary, notifying him of a variety of windows of time that I was available, and that I wanted to coordinate with the schedule of a friend to be in attendance (someone who is more knowledgeable than myself about high-end speakers). My next opportunity to check email occurred when I returned home from work at 7:30 p.m. I then discovered that Gary had responded by email (1:10 p.m.), stating: "Mary, I'll be by tomorrow before 9:30 a.m". I responded by email to Gary immediately (7:47 p.m.) that my friend was unavailable to join us at that time, and provided an additional option for the appointment. Mark, if Gary had called me during store hours to discuss the appointment or left me a voicemail regarding his availability, I would have notified Gary during store hours that my friend was unavailable. When I didn't hear from him by telephone on 04/18, I assumed that he had not received my email or that he had not been able to finalize his availability. But, we did not have an established appointment. The only confirmed appointment that we did have, I did cancel with notice to AC because my time off from work was not approved by my employer.
Gary called me 3 times last week (one was a response to my email of 04/17), I was unable to return the calls but I did send timely email responses to each. In the past, Gary has encouraged me to send emails (when possible) because he is difficult at times to reach during normal business hours (away for installations, tied up with customers, etc). If this is no longer the best way to communicate with him or you, and it sounds like it no longer is, then I will call instead.
I have a heavy travel schedule this week but will call you on Tuesday when your business reopens for the work week. I look forward to the resolution of the speaker issue, and appreciate your personal involvement and willingness to resolve this situation in a timely manner.
Are you saying you've been trying to get your speakers fixed since December '06 or are you saying you've made other types of appointments with the dealer that have been cancelled by the dealer? If you've been trying to get your speakers fixed since December, that's insane!! Holy cow, they should have been fixed by now and the dealer should be ashamed of him/herself.
She payed good money for the product that is not working properly, almost 'out of the box.' You should (and Wilson included)bend over backwards to help your customer instead badmouthing her on the public
forum.
How many thousands did that dealer reap on the sale?
I doubt DDM would have posted if she was as wrong as the dealer made her out to be.
Instead of discrediting her, he should have been at her house with a new, matched driver.
I seem to remember a store in Dallas by that name when I lived there almost 30 years ago.
________
"Occasionally we list eccentrically, all sense of balance gone."
I must be thinking of the Houston store of the same name, where I did shop in the late '70's.
________
"Occasionally we list eccentrically, all sense of balance gone."
a
I almost wrote in my reply to this thread, "assuming we have all the facts" as I know there is always two sides to every dispute. Regardless of where the truth lies, your ability to present your side while maintaining a civil discourse and continue to offer a helping hand to the customer (instead of letting it get bitter at this point) is commendable. I hope everything works out for both you and the customer.
Well, here we have it. lol I love it! Very good for you for not letting it get ugly. Very professional indeed.
unlike other manufactures or dealers. i like that you spoke up and have the profesionalsim to get the problem resolved no matter what has transpired. i'm impressed.
Wilson takes a different approach to fusing the drivers. Instead of placing a conventional fuse in the signal path, the crossover uses resistors that are designed to go first.You may just have the equivalent of a blown fuse.
If they are open on Saturday why can;t you bring the speaker to them on Saturday - leave it there for a week until the dealer can fix it. Some dealers only have one repair guy on staff and they are there a given amount of time - usually part time. I don't see why the dealer can't accommodate you in this regard.
Here's a question from a different direction: what's your history with that dealer?I ask because there are some people in the world who have expectations that are so high that no one could meet them. I remember a situation some 30 years ago when I worked in an electronics store. A customer had purchased an under-dash car radio. He was off-road in his Jeep when he turned the car upside down in a creek. The radio was flooded with mud and water. To top it off, he attempted to repair it himself using "liquid solder" glue and it was just everywhere inside the unit. Anyway, he demanded it be fixed under warranty. When that was politely declined he wrote a multi-page rant to the corporate office. They gave him a new radio to make him go away. That was also not our only experience with this guy.
The situation you describe with your speaker is certainly not the same. Drivers in an expensive speaker should work and I doubt you've been taking the speaker off-road. However, are there prior experiences between you and this dealer that might make them weary? I know everyone who deals with the public has at least a few "challenging" customers. Sometimes those expectations cross the line from just "high" to irrationally demanding. Then some relatively ordinary situation comes along and becomes the straw that breaks the camel's back.
I'm not saying that this is your situation, but it never hurts to make a quick self-examination to rule out the possibility they might think of you as a PITA from prior events.
Whatever the case, I'd quit messing with the local dealer and go straight to the manufacturer. At that point I don't think I'd be buying much from that dealer in the future.
Having worked for two highend dealers I know all too well that there are some complete jerks out there but if we take DevilDawgMom's version of events the dealer is appallingly bad. Either shop I worked for would have swapped drivers in her home in the evening or on a weekend. If it is more than a driver swap we would have picked up the speakers, left her loaners (something much more modest but decent), and delivered the speakers when fixed. Wilson should be all over these folks unless they have a very good explanation. One of the shops I worked for is a Wilson dealer.
Over the years that I sold gear my experiences with clients was about 70% neutral, another 20% or so I was always pleased to see (and not for financial reasons), the remaining 10% ranged from mildly unpleasant to horrific. We told a couple people to leave and never come back but as I recall neither of them had ever actually bought anything from us.
The manufacturer offered for you to contact them if the dealer does not resolve the problem. The dealer has not resolved the problem. I don't know how many vacation days you are allowed a year, but the average American gets 10 days per year (pretty sad, actually) and would have utilized 30% of your alloted annual leave to allow the dealer to fix the problem at this point. I think you have allowed the dealer more than enough slack.I'm not suggesting that you voice your dissatisfaction with the dealer (scream, yell, wear protest signs while walking in front of the store) or discontinue doing business with the dealer. That is another question and decision you have to personally make. But, the facts as you've laid out are that your speaker has broken, you contacted the manufacturer, they asked you to give the dealer a chance to fix it, and they asked you to contact them again if the dealer does not fix it. The dealer has not fixed it. Contact the manufacturer as instructed.
Personally, I'd call Wilson right now. You've given the dealer enough chances. With a speaker that expensive, the dealer should be bending over backward to accommodate you, even if they have to stay open a little later to do it.
In most other fields, it is natural to call the manufacturer. I think this is the best plan. Wilson itself should coordinate with the dealer, and hopefully "git er done" as they say down south...If your dealer is an authorised wilson dealer, definately give the manufacturer a ring. You paid enough for those Wilsons to diserve some good CS.
OK, take another vacation day but come prepared with a large picket sign that says, "They Sold me a Lemon." If you don't get service, you know what to do...
Dealers have bad days too. I once had a problem where the dealer didn't want to work on my speakers, soooooo, I called the manufacturer's rep and asked if they could fix my speakers cuz the dealer wasn't able too. He said, "WHAT? Hold on, I'll call you right back". Well, my dealer service went from appalling to superior. They did a great job and treated me like a God. Soooo, no hard feelings. Shit happens. eh?
"The 7" driver of the left speaker in my VERY expensive speakers went out without notice. The speakers had been operating eratically for a few weeks, and then without notice, the 7" driver on the left speaker went out. And, when I say "went out", I mean there is nothing there"What do U mean by "eratically" if I may ask?
I am pretty sure which model of Wilson speakers U have and it is certainly surprising that Wilson is not at least shipping U a new driver or sending a technician out to U. Hell, they send one out to setup your speakers in your room after purchase or is that just on the elite models?
I personally have not had to deal with my local dealers in a sticky situation like U are in but I would think that they would bend over backwards after how much U spent on the speakers!!
Personally, I would lean very strongly on Wilson to get their/your dealer to step up to the plate and resolve your situation as it is completely unacceptable for a product failure, in a product of that status, to happen so soon after the purchase.
By the way, what does the warranty cover?
Cheers,
~kenster
Take your contact at Wilson up on his offer, as maybe he can help you out.Find out if it would void the warranty for you to remove drivers yourself to try to trace down the problem.
If removing drivers won't void your warranty, you are welcome to shoot me an e-mail and I'll do my best to walk you through some troubleshooting over the phone at your convenience.
I don't know exactly what to say about your situation. Maybe I just want to rant about my fussy dealer too... grr! I work full time too, so I understand the frustration with needing to take care of this stuff on the weekend.My fussy dealer recently basically made a deal with me about a return and is now trying to make it more difficult for me to make the return on purpose... same stuff... putting off appointments, obfuscating, ect, so that maybe I will decide to keep these things, pfft...
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