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In Reply to: The only thing that makes sense of this review is.... posted by John Ashman on April 17, 2007 at 15:22:38:
They were in a much larger room than specified - when I get home I'll measure the room and update the review and the profile.The measurements in the SP100 review, right below, are the measurements of the room the SP100s are in right now. Not the room the Golds were in, the SP100s used to be in, and the Living Voice Avatars are in right now.
It's doubtful I'm hearing a room midbass problem because both the Avatars and the SP100s have very capable mid bass response - in fact I suspect both have a larger and more prodigious a mid bass than the more articulated and extended Golds.
Now you might claim I was having a low bass problem since the Golds are more extended than either - however I doubt that because the low bass response, ie. inaudible bass response, of the Golds was quite impressive.
I apologize for my room measurement error - I'll post the correct dimensions later.
But I am convinced what I was hearing was the port. A more appropriate amp may have had better control - but in my room a variety of $2000 power amps were used and none of them worked well.
"And they're not an "audiophile" speaker. They're designed to
rock and roll and do a great job of it. "I admit they are capable of playing very loud with an awesomely powerful bass. However overall I find them too polite to be a great rock and roll speaker.
Give me rhythm or give me death!
Follow Ups:
IMO, the Gold is equal to or better than the Mini in virtually every way. My complaints about the Mini vs the Gold is - not as detailed, overly thick in the mid bass, mid/upper bass not detailed, typical "ported midrange" sound. I always felt the NHT 1.5s, though not as "musical", were far more precise. The Golds, on the other hand, were smooth, fun, dynamic and fixed the 50-250Hz range while adding a full octave of response. Certainly not perfect speakers, and maybe I'm romanticizing them a bit, but for R&R, they're great. What makes them great for R&R is that the midrange is forgiving and warmish, but the treble is detailed and vibrant while the bass just gives you that fun thump. Think of them with respect to classical or jazz or acoustic music and how transparent they are/aren't and they drop quite a bit. They're my ideal, cost no object garage speaker :-)
This is one of the most ridiculous, pompous posts I've ever read on either Audiogon or the Asylum. I have a Musical Fidelity Tri-Vista 300 integrated amp (i'm sure you'll bash that as well), mated to PSB Goldi's - Heavenly, period. My friends Krell 400xi was NOT up to the task. Thiel 2.4's, while great with pansy music, can't hold a candle to the Gold's for a wide range of jazz, classic rock, indie rock, etc. Room, cables, etc are not discussed above. I have a $6000 amp, a $3000 CDP, annother grand or two in cables, power cords, etc - but you're right, I am no audiophile. PSB Gold's are for idiots who don't know any better. Great sound is in the eye of the listener. People like you drive newbies and others away. I welcome opinions, but not blatant bashing - maybe your amp sucked, maybe your cables sucked, maybe you haven't had your ears cleaned in 15 years. Please. In some rooms, with the right amp, the Goldi's were, and ARE, one of the best under $3k values, period, DEPENDING on your listening tastes, of course. Indisputable. I joined this forum, long time lurker, just to post this, to respond to this crapola.
""No PSB Gold owner of which I'm aware would be amp swapping and listening to vinyl and have fancy cables. Maybe back then, but today?"" Tell that to my Linn setup. Moronic.
In my opinion McIntosh is an audiophile product but IMO the PSB stratus line is more serious audiophile product than anything I've ever heard or seen manufactured by McIntosh.And more to the point - junk into the Golds means junk out. Me thinks you're the one who's not giving them the respect they deserve.
HTML tag not allowedI'm not going to ask about the stinker that must reside in your living room that could drive you to listen to your lesser or crummy recordings on the PSB Stratus Golds - that's why people have garage systems right? Really the Golds pretty much sucked on average recordings and needed special stuff just to sound ok. Honest I'd rather have some 1/4 the price Polk Monitor 10Bs in my garage - least they never embarrassed me by how bad they could sound. I'm not saying the Golds are bad - they just fall far short of being good.
Give me rhythm or give me death!
The Gold's were an affordable alternative at, what, $2100, to "audiophile" speakers. It did 80% of what a B&W 801 would do, for instance. I'm not trying to build them up or tear them down and you can't decide which you'd like to do! I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I can't make any sense of your posts. The Golds were great, high value speakers then, but by today's standards, they'd fall short in many areas, just as most speakers of that era would. NHT 2.9s were better audiophile speakers as they were notably more precise, but weren't as fun or forgiving. Golds like to be turned up and rocked out. And please, Polk 10Bs?!? They're not even close to a Gold. 10Bs were truly awful speakers by comparison. I used to have to sell those things and they sucked back then. That's why I can't understand what you're trying to get at! Most of your descriptions only make sense if you're trying to judge a 10+ year old speaker as though it were being built today. That makes no sense. And comparing to a Polk 10B is just ludicrous. Or even the Mini. The Gold is clearly better than the Mini in every way except maybe imaging and only because of its smaller baffle.Still confused here!!!!
I don't really care if the Golds are clearly better than the Mini or the Polk Monitor 10B. Doesn't matter.Fact is I enjoyed living with the Mini and the 10Bs. I spent 3 years trying to come to grips with the Golds and couldn't get it them to work for me.
So what if I can find more faults with the Mini, the 10Bs or even the SP100s? So what if even I could argue that Golds are a better speaker than all 3 of them? So what?
It means nothing. The fact is I liked listening to and living with the sucking 10Bs, the crappy Minis and the colored SP100s a heck of a lot more than the BETTER PSB Stratus Golds.
I'm not the one who's being inconsistent here. It's perfectly reasonable for me to prefer the Polk Monitor 10B - I owned and lived with it for almost 10 years. Yes I'd rather have the 10B in my garage than the Stratus Golds - that's a real easy choice for me.
Give me rhythm or give me death!
It kind of comes across as a slam on PSB, to negatively review a 10+ year old speaker that was quite the piece in its day. No PSB Gold owner of which I'm aware would be amp swapping and listening to vinyl and have fancy cables. Maybe back then, but today? It's kind of like a video game enthusiast complaining about how bad Pong is. I certainly had a blast with it back then. It's just kind of unnecessary, I guess and makes little sense to me. I feel like Nancy Kerrigan screaming "why.....why.......?"
You might be right - I sold those speakers 6 years or so ago. Just thought I'd write the review to memorialize my experiences. I'd do the same for the Mini's but I only owned them for 1 year and honestly I don't remember exactly how they sound.That being said - yes the Mini's did have a creamy dark character. They played loud and threw a large soundscape - except the bottoms of drums and loud bass were MIA.
In fact own of the salesmen at a shop I frequent told me that the PSB distributor/agent considered the Mini's the best speaker in the PSB line.
I bought the Golds through a high end shop, it was reviewed in both Audio and Stereophile as and considered a serious loudspeaker. I've never seen PSB sold anywhere except mom and pop outlets and never through large chains. Surely you characterization of PSB owners makes light of them as serious audiophiles.
Give me rhythm or give me death!
> I've never seen PSB sold anywhere except mom and pop outlets <
And here???
> I've never seen PSB sold anywhere except mom and pop outlets <
How about here??????
Hopefully they aren't dumping the Stratus line or the new top of the line products in that way.I saw some of the Exposure 2010 series gear being sold that way - goes a long way towards diminishing brand loyalty. At least for me.
Give me rhythm or give me death!
PSB makes good speakers for the money. I always thought the stratus line was high class... what I mean by that is, it was the speaker equivalent of Rita Hayworth.
Gotta love it though. Those who buy this distressed unsellable at retail priced equipment will always state full retail price when asked how much it's worth.Kid I know told me about his audio buying experience - he could get a $1200 speaker for $799 over there, a $1000 speaker for $499 over there, etc. Think he ended spending $299 on a pair of $999 speakers.
Can't stop talking about all the cash he saved.
Give me rhythm or give me death!
You buy from a authorized dealer to get the warrenty and to support your local dealer... some folks would rather just save the money. Nothing wrong with that.I have had several PSB speakers, and I bought them all locally. One pair I got for a lot less than cost because they were being replaced by newer model updates... you can still get good deals locally, doesn't mean it's for everyone. If I was not into audio as a hobby, but more of a means to an end, then I would have no problem saving some cash and buying online for cheap... it save's the dealer's energies for people like me. It's a win win.
You sound snobbish though, as if paying more just for the sake of paying more is "cool". The best thing you did, obviously, was sell the Golds so someone else that actually appreciated them could enjoy them.
I get your point but there's alot more to this than whether or not one wants a warranty or not.I don't mean to sound snobbish. I bought the Golds for $600 off list price from an authorized dealer, the SP100s 6 months used from an authorized dealer and the Living Voice Avatars used.
My point is saving cash needs to be secondary to getting good sound. Buying a $3000 speaker because it's discounted to $2000 instead of other $3000 speakers that aren't discounted should be an insult to any reasonable audiophile. I admit to buying the then $2200 Golds because they were available (without demo) for $1600 - yea sure I was real happy with the Minis but needed more bass. I knew the Vandersteen 2Cs would work for me but thought I could get more speaker for my dollar coming up with a few more bucks to get in on the "special" deal.Now I spent 3 years trying to get those speakers to perform for me. Just didn't happen. Makes me wonder how little it must take for many Stratus Gold owners to be happy. I'm sure like others have said it's my hearing or I don't know what I'm doing - that's bs, it's them who settle for 1/2 assed sound and they don't even know it. Because I know as a fact it's not easy to get them to sound good.
Nothing wrong with saving money - but far and away for sure good audio equipment rarely shows up in high volume retailers nor is it offered at bottom of the barrel prices.
And AFAIK the Stratus and the top line PSB loudspeakers aren't being discounted like the more affordable products.
More power to those who determine what gear is best for them and then find that gear at a liquidators. However I know, and I assume you know, that gear purchased a rock bottom prices is purchased because it is being sold at rock bottom prices. Not because the buyer determined through listening and evaluation that that gear was best for his system.
If that makes me a snob so be it. But the thought of someone buying a $5000 hifi simply/mostly because they can buy it for $1500 reflects what I see as a mistake made by many audiophiles. Having a $3000 (but only paying $1000 for it) turntable should not be more important than having a $3000 turntable that they know that know they like. Truth be it told they probably could have found a $1000 TT they really liked lots better than the $3000 TT they ended up paying a grand for - and believe me I know from experience just because something costs 5 times as much doesn't mean a listener is going to like it more. But alas who am I to judge.
Don't get me wrong. People can and do find great deals on appropriate equipment used, demo and even through the liquidators. But I bet far more often than not this equipment is bought based mostly on price and not on appropriateness. And I'd also bet lots of people have no clue to the point I'm trying to make and that's why they think my attitude is snobbish.
The best thing you did, obviously, was sell the Golds so someone else that actually appreciated them could enjoy them.
You've made an incorrect assumption. They didn't work out for him either. He sold them to someone else - hopefully that person will be able to enjoy them like neither of us were able to do.
Sure saving money is way cool - but unfortunately one needs to be very lucky or very patient if they shop discrimately and expect to get a big savings at the same time.
Give me rhythm or give me death!
It did do everything well, but wasn't the best at any one thing, such as imaging, or resolution or soundstaging or these kinds of things. But it was fun and rocked. I think "serious audiophiles" have something missing in their soul, anyway.
I thought my review was fair. Those who appreciate it's strengths will appreciate the speaker. And for those who appreciate it's strengths I think it's worth pursuing it as a high value high performance loudspeaker.It did do everything well, but wasn't the best at any one thing, such as imaging, or resolution or soundstaging or these kinds of things. But it was fun and rocked. I think "serious audiophiles" have something missing in their soul, anyway.
It's perfectly ok that our opinions differ on this speaker. However I find your comments above worth discussing.
I'm not so sure you and I share the same concept of a serious audiophile. A serious audiophile can be someone who is all about their soul and musical enjoyment. An objectivist is someone who usually lack soul and is the kind of audiophile who thinks like imaging, resolution, soundstaging, bass power, treble extension and ultimate loudness take on the highest of priorities and this is, IMO, exactly the kind of audiophile the PSB Stratus Golds will appeal to.
One thing is clear to me. You seem to be defending the Status Golds as being a fun alternative to some kind of standard anal retentive gooberized audiophile product. My position is that the Stratus Golds ARE perfectly typical of the unfun standard anal retentive gooberized audiophile product.They are all about measured performance. I'm not saying they sound bad or that they are not capable of sounding good. I'm saying compared to products I consider musical and fun they just aren't that good. Comparisons made surrounding performance and measureable criteria might lead one to a more positive conclusion but given my experiences I find it real difficult to consider them a fun or a completely musical enjoyable product. However those with different priorities can and may disagree.
Give me rhythm or give me death!
The Gold is in no way the typical "gooberized" high-end product. It is not bright nor does it hype imaging or anything else. It is, as Ozzy completely exaggerated, a little on the slower, warmer side of things. B&W is more typical of the "gooberized" bright, flashy, "listen to what I can do!!!" kind of speaker. Nor is it a typical "sip on wine" kind of speaker. It loves to play loud and rock the room. Now, the newer Platinums? Sure. They're very "in your face" and too intense. But Golds aren't. I wouldn't recommend them to *any* audiophile, whether you call them "serious" (as in anal retentive) or an "objectivist" (actually, what I really think you mean here is "pop audiophile") as the Golds aren't "objectively" an amazing speaker. They just sound smooth and warm and pleasant.
The Golds are an objectively amazing speaker in their ability to play loud and deliver quality deep bass - especially when they were priced at slightly over $2k for the pair.It loves to play loud and rock the room.
That's what I've been saying all along! Sure with the right recording it can rock the room and shake the windows and with enough power it can play loud. In fact, I agree, it has a polite inoffensive character. But no matter what you are trying to claim these are objective performance criteria. And however amazing or refined these abilities, which I've admitted all along, it is not enough for me to deem them a musical or fun loudspeaker.
I don't think I disagree with much about what you say about the sound of the Golds. However, admitting that I agree with most of it, I would and have come to a different conclusion about the quality and usefulness of the speaker.
Give me rhythm or give me death!
.
a hard core audiophile (panels, high power, etc.) who hooked them up to a tv system in his bedroom so he could hear his X-rated videos in stereo!
Give me rhythm or give me death!
Let's see. It was thick sounding, slow, not very resolving and had somewhat boomy bass. Yeah, that's pretty magical fer sure......
Oz
With the set up I had here the bass was not muddy or boomy but rather fast and tight. Highly powerful and dynamic speaker that can really convey alot of emotion with exciting music such as Rock or some livley jazz. Virtually indestructible speakers that give you alot for your money.
I eventually upgraded but did enjoy them very much.
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