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In Reply to: Two strange things about Wilson Audio and VSA... posted by tomer on March 23, 2007 at 23:16:51:
nt
Follow Ups:
I think the point at which Albert made the decision to have
all the cabinetry done offshore is the point at which I was no longer
interested in the products. The price hikes made after the company
rebuild may have been necessary, but with a speaker costing more than
$50K it's just ridiculous that the cabinets can't be domestic. The argument
could also be made he needed to cut cabinet costs as well to re-establish
the companies monetary validity, but it should be known
in a more obvious fashion that the bulk of the speaker building costs
are from foreign manufacture. The company shure seems monetarily valid now.
R&D is a seperate issue.The VR-4jr's, etc. are fine sounding speakers, but the prices are simply ridiculous
when you consider that some of the finest cabinetry
available in speakers such as Avalons, or Wilsons for that matter,
can and are made locally. Obviously, it can be done, and at competitive prices. Regardless of implementation and hard costs
such as drivers and XO components, the retail prices are indeed getting ridiculous and do seem greedy.
One of the reasons I buy gear is to support companies employing workers
here. If that is not the case, I vote with my dollars.
...Rank the Sophia 1 higher than the Maxx II.
That's because of their new reviewer, Malte Ruhnke. Wilson speakers are bad and he dares to say it.
(nt)
...I've found the best way to deal with close minded people is to ignore them
speakers with measurements that bad are a waste of time and money. IMHO of course. YMMV of course. Hifi is not about "do I like it".
...this:> Wilson speakers are bad...>
You may say, "Wilson speakers' measurements are bad..."
Until you actually hear them, you can't comment on anything but their measurements.
Please try to be more precise.
> Hifi is not about "do I like it".>
LOL!
> Hifi is not about "do I like it". <We've been down this road before, but I still contend that's a stupid statement.
If it's not about what "I like", then "I don't want it". I'm not going to bother with stuff that measures perfect but sounds like crap. And believe me, the two are not mutually exclusive.
Usually it's the other way round, it measures bad yet the reviewer is in awe (Wilson speakers come to mind). If you know of a speaker that measures good and sounds bad, I'd be glad to read that review.
Well my Infinity Prelude MTS speakers seem to fall in that category judging by how high-enders reacted to them!
Can't access the graphs so don't know whether or not they measure good. In any case, someone who is used to drink coffee with sugar won't like it without. In other words, someone who is used to listen to speakers with all sorts of flaws won't probably like speakers without these flaws.
Oh no not that one again!
I'll remember that name.
the X-2's measurements are among the worst I've seen so far. YMMV. Fact is that Ruhnke is not impressed by High-End stuff.
> the worst I've seen so far <Ahhh, hello? Anybody home?
The primary reason for owning speakers is to LISTEN to them.
Yes, indeed, it is. To speakers REPRODUCING music, not MAKING it. Big difference, meaning different requirements. Most speakers are good at making music, Wilson and B&W come to mind. Obviously, YMDV (your mileage does vary).
....because the VR2, 4 Jr. and Sr. are a far cry from what he used to offer for much less money. Only the well heeeled can afford a good sounding new VS product anymore. His business model leaves a lot to be desired too.
Strange, I always associated the name Von Schweikert with a lot of speaker for the money, but never quite had confidence in the name and, conversely, always associated Wilson with some of the worst products when it comes to price/performance ratio and never had any confidence in that name either, associating it with the worst form of gouging and preying on the insecurities of audiophiles. Never heard VS products, but heard some Wilsons (7s) driven by Spectral electronics and was astounded at how bad they actually sounded. They get the spookiness factor right, but familiar voices were reproduced in a way that made them difficult to recognize: a speaker that can't get the midrange right is one bad speaker in my opinion! I had never heard such reproduction.I have heard speakers that are a delight to listen to even if they have less than stellar measurements (Reference Di Capos come to mind and probably most if not all of the Verity models) and some that measure very well and sound marvelous, although often sounding less spooky that what high-enders now like.
Spookiness is now one of my pet expressions for speakers. I have no idea if anyone has coined the expression before, if not I will gladly accept paternity for it and will define it here for you, as best I can:
the quality of a speaker that sounds boxless in that the sound appears to come from all around the speaker, even from behind it, that has great depth to the stereo image, but that more often than not does not have a good octave to octave balance, leaving at least me to believe that the sound is contrived.
Some of the good sounds I heard and I have no idea where these speakers are made or who is behind the product or how they actually measure: Peak Consult.
And sound like music too.
Ran B&w801#3 with krell ksa 250
dealer had Wilson Watt puppy 4.1 I think with rowland amps. HILLED THE b&w 801 hands down on pink floyd
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