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Having had the opportunity to have over 14 pairs of speakers come through my house in the last 3 years gives me a unique perspective to appreciate what a well designed speaker the old Matrix series 801's really are.John Atkinson re reviewed them after 14 years in Stereophile and basically said "Even by today's standards, the Matrix 801 will still hold it's own with almost any high end speaker made today"
North Creek feels the Matrix 801 with their improved parts crossover is the equal of any high end speaker within reason made today.
I used to read Audio Magazine, and DB Keele, a veteran engineer who worked at EV, Altec, and JBL used them as his reference.
I couldn't afford them back then, but now I see why!Once you get used to the performance level of a properly fed and set up Matrix 801, you get spoiled.
I constantly shake my head in disbelief at people spending megabucks on some high end speakers, when they could simply buy a used Matrix 801 in good condition that will very likely eat their lunch.Sorry to "gush", but the truth is the truth.
No wonder so many people used them as monitors, they really are THAT good.
Follow Ups:
Production of the Matrix 801 ceased in 1998 and according to B&W policies availability of replacement parts will end 10 years after EOL. I have spare tweeter diaphragms, but unsure what further spare parts to order now they are still available. What other components are likely to fail? Thanks.
ka7niq,the 801's really are that good and I miss them, but, you omit to acknowledge that their studio monitoring heritage means that they only sound truly 'right' (to my ears, at least) when they are playing LOUD... and therein lies their greatest weakness; in the domestic setting.
After a hard day's labour and way past late... thru' to the early hours... 90db+ takes me back at the speed of light, to my teenage years and my dear ol' short tempered Pa, screaming "turn it down" followed by numerous expletives...
Enjoy,
FW
The "Van Alstine mod" has a provision for clipping the lead of the Woofer Zobel circuit, thus raising the bass level by 2 db.This mod "warms em up" for lower listening levels due to the Fletcher Munson effect.
My 801's have this mod done, and I can "control" it by passive bi amp, using a bass amp with level controls.
I turn my bass amp's gain down slightly, because a 2 db boost is a little too warm, in my room.
My only "problem" with the matrix 801's is they will not play as loud as I would sometimes like, in my large room.
Other then that, they are about as close to a "perfect" all around speaker as I have ever heard.
Bass definition is a bit lacking compared to the VMPS RM 40's, and some others, but tolerable.
ka7niq,My 801's were original/unmodified and driven by a single amp as, I hazard to guess will be the case, with the majority of 801's in the domestic field :-)
Regards
FW
It is my understanding B&W built the 2 db possible bass response variation into the Matrix 801 series 2 so it might better suit whatever room it is in.
It takes all of 10 seconds to effect it.
All one need do is snip one lead of the woofer zobel capacitor.It can easily be put back to stock if one does not like the change.
You are correct, many are not aware of this mod, and I suppose for them the 801 will be just as room dependant as any other speaker is.
Put yr Money where yr Mouth is :-)
I already own a pair, including 6 other pairs of high end speakers.
I just sold off 5 pairs of speakers, TRYING to downsize!
The high end retailers here have a bunch of Matrix 801s still kicking around -- and B&W made a mistake opting for looks over sound quality in the much worse N801 which costs far more and offers far less.Not the N801 is bad -- in a big room with SET amplifiers I was very impressed but at the massive price tag it is just not worth it.
The only caveat remains that treble which always seems to sound unrelated to musical events and quite often a compartmentalized sound. It is really evident on their CDM(except the 2SE) and 700 series.
Soundhounds was carrying and may still be the Diamond 800 series. Have you heard them? For more than $20k? -- Well if that was the only 20K plus speaker I heard I would be opting for some Sennheiser HD 600s.
Where in Korea? Yongsan? How much are they asking?I can imagine they have a hard time selling them. Who has a big enough space in Korea?
As for Koreans not being slaves to what is in, BS. Look at how many shops carry the same lines, look at how often lines come and go, and look at home many shops come and go.
I got my Harbeths at a great price because they were having a hard time selling them--they looked too old fashioned.
in some ways very much slaves to what is "in" but in other ways not so much. The culture is almost built on 1950's American ideology with a Caste system still evident.Yongsan is one area -- there is no real space to listen to anything in these shops but at the same time all the equipment is in the ame boat with the same disadvantage. Contrary to popular belief you can get a sense of most speakers in less than ideal set-ups.
Shops come and go because some shop owners do not know how to run a business - I never said they were better business people. Competition in all things in Korea is very high. 10 restaurants all right beside eachother selling the exact same menu means that over time one o two is bound to go under.
Then again in the West I have seen how often brands come and go from dealers and it is bery high as well.
There are many dealers who carry only what will net them the highest bucks and some dealers carry what they like. Good dealers will carry both which is why my favorite dealer in BC is Soundhounds. They willcarry all the heavily advertised stuff because it keeps the kids in shoes. But they carry stuff they themselves buy to listen to in their own homes because some very small percentage of the people who walk through the doors are not slaves to the magazine review.
On the whole the stuff carried in Yongsan is a step above the stuff found in most dealers I have been into in the west. The listening rooms may not be great but then for this money you would have an in home trial. At least it is not the "listen to the Paradigm, PSB, Energy, B&W cut from the same monotonous "where's the dynamics" east coast copycat cloth.
The last time I was there, I assume I was cursed at(or at least something unpleasant was said)when I entered a store after the L.A. riots. I couldn't understand why everyone was staring at me until I had an epiphany, Needless to say, I watched my back until I got back to the base.
nt
My comments were for the Matrix series 801's, and the used bargain I feel they represent.I know I can do better new then a Nautilus 801 or a Diamond 801 either.
I don't feel they are worth the Money.BTW, I was doing the SET thing years ago.
I lived in Seattle, and went all over plucking Western Electric stuff from theatres out West, and selling to the Japanese.Some like the rolled off sound of an SET amp/speaker combo, and when confronted with a tweeter that REALLY has top end extension, freak out.
The Matrix 801 series 2 have a remarkable, non ferrofluid tweeter with real extension on top.
Whenever I go away from it by hooking up a pair of several high end speakers I own, I realize how much air I am missing!
I have a pair of 802 Matrix Series III with outboard North Creek Xovers, and I believe they sound better than the 802 Nautilus I heard at a local dealer.Peace,
Tom E
The North Creek Crossovers are the "Holy Graile" for every Matrix 801 owner.
Maybe someday .......
You can't really tell how good speakers' are in Korean shops since there's no space for optimal placement. Various models are piled to the ceiling just as in the Base Exchange on military bases overseas.
The shops in Korea are cramped - but the room is the same for both. I have heard the two in Canada -- I bring up Korea to note what they carry as opposed to what most of the western shops carry.They are not slaves to new is always better because the company told us so.
x
I'd grab a pair myself if it wasn't for a couple of factors:1) Smallish rooms(can be overcome, but overweighed by factor 2).
2) Already have 7 pair of speakers taking up space - need to sell some of them off first :)
I would not suggest them for small rooms.
The high frequency energy IMHO will be too much.
But, in a mid to largish sized room, they are wonderful.
A lot of folks who poo-poohed them never heard them in a big enough room. Nautilus 801's too. Well broken in, large room, decent front end and electronics. Very nice, really.
Now there's an idea -- what would be a version of the Matrix 801 gene pool that suits smaller rooms?H
Matrix 805 !
and I have heard several other models, and their higher end models are also quite good and a better value than most. I do not know why they are "bose'ed" so much.
Also, considering the actual materials, parts, and real research that goes into them, it is funny to hear the owners of "boutique" speakers rationalizing the price they paid for their-off shelf drivers and mdf speakers as the cost of R&D....
They ara "Bosed" by a few, and with good reason.
Some are scared chitless of them, because they are a well engineered, technologically advanced speaker, that does what it is supposed to do.I have had many high end speakers come through here in the last 3 years.
Not many can stand comparasion to a Matrix 801, in a side by side comparasion.
In fact they were so bad they damaged B&W's reputation. I'm not the only person who noticed this. I don't even bother to check them out anymore, because if the company can issue something as bad as that then how can they be trusted.
?
IMHO, B&W misses him.
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