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I noticed that this NHT speaker system, list price $4,000, was listed amoung the current Stereophile Class A-unrestricted speakers. The system includes two woofers, two "monitors" (whatever that is), two power amps, a bass manager, two assembly kits (whatever that is), a third monitor, pedestal, etc. I missed the review (Vol. 28, Nos. 3 & 4), and I don't know anything about them, but I was interested in the fact that Stereophile rates this $4,000 speaker system in their highest categories, alongside several speaker pairs selling for $30,000 - $50,000.Has anyone heard them, or does anyone know anything about them? Are there further on-line reviews?
Follow Ups:
This is quite a long review, in which the writer details the results of many setup experiments. I don't necessarily agree with all of his conclusions, but it's an interesting read nonetheless.
Well if you buy stuff from the Stereophile recommendations listings you will very likely find yourself owning rubbish. Expensive and impress your neighbor stuff but relying on the rags is a big mistake.Some of the stuff that magazines review are so truly aweful that they would rate on my "loud telephone quality" ratings guide.
In the last 17 years I would say that 5% of gear is good or better. Stereophile recommends everything and sorry but 95% of it is still less than good.
Their first mistake is reviewing gear independantly of other gear. recommending any individual componant though is the downfall of all audio press.
A bit rash are we not?
It's not even listed in "list all by type". Are they still being made? The M6 monitors are still listed. I was considering a possible future purchase of the T6. It does appear that one could stack the M6 monitors on top of a pair of stacked W2 subs I guess. And the crossovers are apparently still available.
Technically, the T6 no longer exists, but it does in spirit. However, you can get, for a bit less money, the M6 monitor (the actual exact top part of the T6), the P6 stand and the stereo U1 system and you have a $4000 speaker for $3850 *and* you actually have improved bass because of the U1's force cancellation design (same woofers/amps/crossover, different cabinet). The speaker is identical in every way except for the woofer cabinet which *doesn't* act as a stand for the M6. We sold a little more than 25 T6s and an almost exact same number of the sub/sat version. The sub/sat also has the advantage of having subs that can be moved to where they sound best.For those most interested in improved soundstaging/imaging, resolution, we now do a hybrid system using NHT's new Classic Three (surprisingly only in Class C?!?) and the U1. The Classic Three actually has quite a few improvements over the M6/T6 *however*, some people still will prefer the M6 which is less critical of a bad room or bad setup. In a good setup and decent room, the Classic Three outperforms the M6 in most ways except ultimate dynamic range and midbass precision.
Hey John, you seem to be a reasonable sort...Would these Classic Threes or Classic Twos be a good choice for someone who is growing a bit bored with his NHT 2.5s? I loved the 2.5s because they were the best speaker at that time at that price that still sounded good on rock and roll. And I have a couple of real good Peerless subwoofers so clean deep bass is no problem.
John,Interesting to have your experienced insight into the NHT line-up in view of where they ended up on Stereophile's list.
Not having heard either, I must admit to really liking the Classic 3's format. I evaluated several mini-monitor formats with an eye on entering the fray myself, and the 3-way with a dome midrange whose diameter is about halfway between that of the woofer & tweeter was one of the top formats in my opinion and in some ways was the best. The three-way with dome midrange would be my choice over a conventional two-way.
The Dali Ikon range I think has not only the dome midrange but also ribbon tweeters.Must be pretty good!I listened to a Wharfedale 9.6 with a dome midrange.*Lovely* to use a British expression!
I think the Three is almost a Class A bookshelf speaker, *certainly* Class B. Definitely way too good to be in Class B. By itself, it outperforms the M6 which is, I guess, "Class A". Makes no sense to me, but Stereophile is all over the map.Domes are hard to get right, however. The Three has the best dome midrange I have heard so far, but I'm really wanting to hear these ($$$$$), based on the research that went into the original B&W Nautilus:
I meant "way too good to be in Class C".
Okay, I found it with a Google search, but it appears to not be linked from anywhere. Odd.
Having heard them all except the 3.7 I truly feel the 3.6 are indeed something special. The midrange is as transparent as any speaker I have heard and the bass is taut, quick an daccurate. The highs seem to go on forever and imaging and soundstaging is impeccable. Has he ever topped this design? I'm thinking the coax just doesn't make it.
Here's my take as a dealer.... - John Ashman 08:19:23 03/16/07 (0)In Reply to: NHT Evolution T6 Speakers, Stereophile Class A posted by Avocat on March 15, 2007 at 18:54:04:
The T6s are "high Class B" speakers.
Here's why. 90% of Class A speakers are speakers that have great strengths and great flaws at huge prices. 95% can't even get down to anywhere close to 20Hz at -3dB and will get their *asses* handed to them in the bass department by the T6s. IOW, 90-95% of "Class A" speakers objectively don't belong in Class A and probably less than 50% do on a subjective level.Now, if you talk about Class A as a performance level rather than a fraternity club, T6s don't quite have Class A resolution, imaging, soundstaging, which I think are somewhat prerequisite for entry into Class A. However, they *do* have Class A bass quality/capability (they are measurably deeper/more accurate than just about *any* other Class A speaker). They also probably qualify on dynamics and they certainly do on accuracy. There is also an NHT sanctioned 20Hz mod that is available for $50 installed by NHT.
So, yes, they're a bargain, but aren't going to compete with the best $10K and $20K speakers in many areas and will in others.
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Well, seems like they made a good start on a great speaker system (Class A, A-, B or whatever) at a price that might be acceptable to more of the general public. I think getting good dynamics, wide frequency resonse, and low distortion is a good start.
One of my concerns with the entire high-end industry is that there seems to be little or no concern on the part of many manufacturers and reviewers that great sound in general is being priced out of the market, except for a very small remnant of audio enthusiasts like me. Few members of the general public have even heard a good system. The fact that $20K - $50K speakers sell only to a very small market doesn't seem to concern the manufacturers or the reviewers, and the usual market forces don't seem to be operable. (In fact, they seem to be inversely operative - The more expensive the system, up to a point, the more interest it generates.)
In any event, the NHT system seems to be a refreshing alternative, probably because they went to the trouble of including all the necessary subs, sub amps, modules, wiring, Xovers, etc., in a balanced, compatable system. Although, according to your comments, they shouldn't have been rated Class A, perhaps NHT's next model will have better imaging and presence, so that it actually does compete with the Class A speakers. - If that did happen (forgetting for a moment whether or not it's likely to happen), and the price was still in the same ball park, and if it introduced great sound to a larger market, you would be happy about it, wouldn't you?
I'm eagerly waiting to see if a revised version will come out. However, NHT Xd is all that and a bag of chips. And their new Classic Four, while more like Class B where the T6 is Class A, is, IMO, Class A where the T6 is Class B for only $1800. IMO, the Xd system is Class A in every category and are largely only limited by the source material/room/setup.Now, I do think they could merge the Classic technology with Evolution technology and build a speaker that is truly Class A, no problem. But that's all theoretical. Remember, the T6 is a 6 year old speaker already and they've made some big strides in the meantime.
See the main point is that they have no snob appeal.Unfortunately, to high-enders money = sound quality. They would rather have a tiny two-way box speaker for 7K.
The T6s are "high Class B" speakers.Here's why. 90% of Class A speakers are speakers that have great strengths and great flaws at huge prices. 95% can't even get down to anywhere close to 20Hz at -3dB and will get their *asses* handed to them in the bass department by the T6s. IOW, 90-95% of "Class A" speakers objectively don't belong in Class A and probably less than 50% do on a subjective level.
Now, if you talk about Class A as a performance level rather than a fraternity club, T6s don't quite have Class A resolution, imaging, soundstaging, which I think are somewhat prerequisite for entry into Class A. However, they *do* have Class A bass quality/capability (they are measurably deeper/more accurate than just about *any* other Class A speaker). They also probably qualify on dynamics and they certainly do on accuracy. There is also an NHT sanctioned 20Hz mod that is available for $50 installed by NHT.
So, yes, they're a bargain, but aren't going to compete with the best $10K and $20K speakers in many areas and will in others. They are also somewhat manhandled a bit by NHT's on $6000 Xd system which has the bass/dynamics/accuracy, but also has Class A level imaging, resolution, soundstaging. Of course, they can be set via software to 26Hz or 20Hz response, so the fact that they are in "Class A restricted LF" is just ridiculous when there's a huge speaker in full Class A that barely hits 50Hz. The T6 probably made Class A, probably uniquely, because they *measure* so darn good. Most Class A speaker measure poorly, but still manage to sound good in many areas.
If I were to compare the T6 to a car, it would probably be an Audi S6 (if it got hit with an ugly stick), which is to say, not quite an RS6 or a Lamborghini, but well beyond competent, especially as an HT speaker. The Xd though, is more like a Lambo Murcielego and has all that kind of power with more precision and agility.
"95% can't even get down to anywhere close to 20Hz at -3dB"Yeah, there certainly appear to be some obvious discrepancies in how SP categorizes speakers. Subjectively, Wes Philips favorably compared the Thiel 2.4 to the Peak Consult Empress to the point where I couldn't tell which he preferred. JA's measurements show the Thiel with a -6db point in the upper 20s whereas the Empress has a -6 db at about 30 hz. Yet the Empress is full class A and the Thiel class B-limited extension. And other examples can be offered (even the Wilson MAXX2 appears to be down -6db at about 22 hz to go along with several dubious measurements). Just doesn't make a lick of sense. Perhaps I'm simply ignorant of some finer definition of "Full range".
I'd be tempted to complain over at Critic's Corner but JA just gets obscene amounts of abuse over there (there are a couple of miscreants at CC that I wish would be banned). I don't see the sense in piling on. SP is far from perfect, but I really enjoy it and it kicks the s*** out of competing audio journals.
So, how are they selling?If sales are good, it almost sounds more like a Subaru WRX STi to use a car analogy.
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It's funny how the longing for things that go and the availability of certain vehicles evolve compared to the world of audio. When I first graduated from school back in the mid 80s, I purchased a used 1967 Camaro convertible with only 55,000 miles on it that I paid $5500 dollars for. While it was not really a performance car, it was one sweet ride. I had it for about four years and then it was stolen. Given the shape that it was in, it would probably be worth at least $25,000 these days.In the late 80's I almost purchased a Honda Hawk GT, which was a bike that was really ahead of its time. I never went through with it, but still long for one and recently finally got my motorcycle license and might still realize my dream. You can still find those bikes, for about what they cost new back then (for a nice example), but around here you'd better be ready to buy quick because they're gone in no time.
In the world of audio, I'm sure there are some equivalents. Perhaps some of the old Marantz tuners, or some old Rogers LS3/5 speakers for example?
It would be interesting to predict what the next audio classic will be. When I first laid eyes on the first generation Audi A4, that was it for me. In my mind it was an instant classic. Maybe, maybe not, only time will tell. Not as many audio products come along that I feel that way about, but I suppose they do exist.
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Wow - you are a very lucky man!Funny (not really) story:
My neighbor bought a beautiful '89 a couple of summers ago. All stock, which seems to be getting harder and harder to find given the large amount of people that used them for track bikes (I'm guessing). I would let him know on occasion, even before I decided to get serious about getting my license, etc. that if he were to ever sell his bike to be sure to let me know. It's like torture seeing that bike parked outside his place in the summertime.
I've been out of work since December, so money is tight now. Sure enough, I see him the other day and he lets me know that he's finally decided to sell. I couldn't help but laugh given the irony.
Just to torture myself, I'll still check the craigslist postings once in a while. Not long after my job ended, a Hawk shows up, for sale by the proverbial little old lady. Except this posting had a picture of her with the bike.There she was, complete with her own custom leathers. In the pictures the bike looked immaculate and it supposedly had fewer than 7,000 miles on it - she was asking $2,750. I almost cried.
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I saw a pair advertised on Canuck at a very decent price and looked up the review in Stereophile. What I find strange is that Stereophile has this "Class A" and "Class A limited low frequency" division that they created based on their notion (that makes sense to me in a way) that to be SOTA a speaker system has to be flat to 20 Hz or very close to it. Well it seems that the NHT doesn't go down that low and still made the top grade. All I can tell you is that they appear to be an awful lot of speaker for the buck, that they apparently are as dowdy looking in person as in photographs and that they will never gain the love and affection of high-enders for the simple reason that they all drink by the label.I wish I could tell you how they sound, but I can only go on hearsay since I have never heard them.
I like the notion of a well engineered speaker that can be easily shipped due to its modular build and that does not put the money on fancy veneers.
If I didn't have the speakers I have now, I would have done the crazy thing of going for them on the review alone.
Stereophile Review
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