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Hi - I am in search of a monitor that will:- not sound like a small speaker
- sound emotional, warm and inviting, like Vienna Acoustics
- provide startling, pinpoint IMAGING, with huge soundstage
- provide some real bass (i.e. below 40 hz)
- cost up to $3,000 new.Yes, the V.A. Haydn is a monitor, and has warm V.A. sound, but it does not provide a huge soundstage or "real" bass
I have Paradigm Studio 20s, and they are excellent but they are not WARM (metal tweeter) and they do not provide startling pinpoint IMAGING.
Follow Ups:
I don't know if you are a ribbon fan, but I would REALLY recommend Aurum Cantus monitors, especially for the price & the fit and finish .... I've had some of the formentioned monitors (some of which are too big to actually be compact monitors), and especially for the $, they cannot be beat. GREAT deals on the used market as well ... I.M.H.P. .....they look and sound like they are worth MUCH more than u pay ...
See if you can have a listen to the Mark & Daniels Maximus Ruby. Genuine bass down to 40hz due to a uniquely designed woofer. Fantastic reviews on 6 Moons and rave reviews in Asia magazines as well. When I first heard them, I couldn't get over the bass coming from these boxes. Look pretty amazing as well! Check 'em out!
will provide you excellent sound for the money. The JMR Trentes are also very nice, but to my ears sounded thin and less substantial than either the Merlins or the Tyler monitors. For under 3k, the Tyler Linbrook monitors also provide solid bass down to 40 Hz. I believe the latest Merlin TSMs (MM or MX) will take you down to around 45 Hz.
Hukk
I think any speaker that has world class pinpoint imaging under $3000 is lacking in other area's to a point that speaker would not be desirable. But there are many speakers that do many things really well like the Usher CP-6371 or 6381. I love mine. Does everything really well for me only limited by my oversized room thats lacking soundpanels which im working on. I don't know if these speakers are better than the other speakers mentioned here but I know they are just as good if not better in some area's. They go down to 30hz.
_______________________________________*Analog fans may be blind-but digital fans are deaf*
http://www.flickr.com/photos/82495693@N00/
> I think any speaker that has world class pinpoint imaging under $3000 is lacking in other area's to a point that speaker would not be desirable <All I can say is....HUH?????
I was just saying. Speakers under $3000 that concentrate on getting great imaging like those little Gallo speakers lack in other area's. Yeah they image like crazy. But some find them bright and thin. The point is that there are trade offs in a speaker design and you have to choose your poison. I would want other virtues of a speaker than just having great imaging. Getting a speaker with your own person taste of balances is what we all should strive for.I was just advising the original poster that imaging isn't the only thing to worry about in a great speaker. Of course no one wants a speaker that doesn't image very well :)
_______________________________________*Analog fans may be blind-but digital fans are deaf*
http://www.flickr.com/photos/82495693@N00/
nt
_______________________________________*Analog fans may be blind-but digital fans are deaf*
http://www.flickr.com/photos/82495693@N00/
Sounds just like what you are looking for.
Hukk
Do a little work and for about 2 grand try 2 kits(try madisound)by Joe D'Appolito:
1. Thor, floor standing transmission line
2. Odin, bass reflex medium size stand mount version of the Thor
Joe is a superb speaker designer of speakers that sound like the software you are playing. The sound will vary depending on the recording which is waht a monitor should do. Basically you mont the drivers, crossovers and stuf the boxes and you're done.
That sounds more like a low powered, single ended triode amp, and a simple, yet reasonably efficient speaker. Emotional, warm, and inviting.If you're in the mood for a speaker change then you should consider the amplifier as much as the monitor. Perhaps a system approch would be best if you are going for emotional, warm, and inviting.
you can get these second hand for a pretty good price and, when set up they sound excellent in every way. Plus, the bass is plenty sufficient. I've heard a few monitors but, keep coming back to this one. Don't get put off by it being a B&W.
I heard these recently. I was really impressed with both their build and even better, their sound. Take a look at their web site:http://www.audioc.com/
Audio Note AN J - 25hz will play like a floorstander -- I would suggest comparing them to say the B&W N802 or the Wilson Sophia in terms of bass. They prefer corner placement for ideal results.I have not heard standmounts from other companies that have sufficient bass -- the Reference 3a MM De Capo and Totem Mani-2 are close but not to the AN J. If you can spend more the AN E would be my first choice.
Howevr these are standmounts but hardly small.
Based off my humble ears and experience, I would direct you towards the ACI Sapphire XL. This award-winning monitor matches every single requirement you have and then some, and will cost roughly half of your budget - leaving more room to invest elsewhere in the system. With a 30 day in-home trail period and the current sale of $1500 for piano gloss finish topped off with excellent service and warranty - theres not much of a reason why you shouldn't try them out. Just for giggles, here are some reviews to check out;www.affordableaudio.org (Feb Issue pp.29)
http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/aci_sapphire_xl.htm
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/ACI/xl.html
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue27/aci_forcexl.htm
If you're talking about small stand mounted speakers, mainly two-ways, the only one I can think of that has real sub-40 Hz bass is the Totem Mani-2, but it's not warm and it's above your price range. I suggest considering a sub; maybe budget $2000 for the speakers and $1000 for the sub?
I can't spell. It's run by a German guy, Klaus, who gives new meaning to the word "warm".
These monitors, with the ribbon midrange and tweeter and fully tricked out are at the top of your price range but, in a reasonably sized room, offer tremendous sound except for the bottommost octave. And in the 40 to 80hz range these speakers are superior to any monitor I have heard for under $5k.I have compared the VMPS to Diapason Adamantes and AE1 and AE2 Signatures and clearly the VMPS are better - imaging,dynamics and depth of image all win with the VMPS.
The ribbon midrange is remarkable and the ribbon tweeter is one of the least fatiguing high ends I have ever heard. And they are quite amplifier tolerant.
How do they sound with tube amplifiers?
accuracy of the VMPS speakers. A nice combination. The 626's are not very difficult to drive. Check out www.audiocircle.com vmps section to poll a lot of vmps owners on their experiences.
I've had them for several years now, and they continue to surprise me as my system evolves.
Thank you!
nt
Aren't they kind of big to be actually considered a monitor?! :) I ownded a pair as well, and all great sound aside, they ARE rather large!
(no longer in production, find a "used" pair). Maybe the JM Reynaud Twin Signature? Haven't heard them, only an earlier model. There is much praise in these boards for them. Find a pair of Trente; they are extremely engaging and "musical" speakers. You'll be VERY pleased, and you'll even come in well under budget!
"I always play jazz records backwards, they sound better that way"
-Thomas Edison
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but they won't go as low as you've spec'd. The SR17 will. My SR11s were a revelation- they matched my Merlin TSM-Ms for accuracy, at half the price, and with nicer cabinets to boot. Sweet sounding, too, but not euphonic or colored. Would make great monitors, IMO.
With it's twin 15" woofers the 813 is one monitor that will not sound like a small speaker.
The Altec equivelent was a good one too but I can't remember the number. Cheers.
UREI used Altec 604s in the original versions of the 813s. You can tell by the crossover, which was redesigned for each of the 3 versions of 813s. The UREI crossover for the "A" version is: 838.Hope that helps.
Cheers,
Try to audition both the VR1s and the LCR (or whatever they now call their MTM config 3-way) along with their VRS/1 sub. Do the speakers alone, then with a single sub.VR1s have all the qualities you want. YOu can get them new on the Web now for $700 (list is $1K) and the sub will still set you back about $1600. It's so damn small and so well integrated and so powerful that you might be shocked!
Then do the MTM version, which is slightly larger and goes deeper on its own. They say and I've actually heard them be an improved version of the VR1 when upended. They will cost about $1500 a pair, still leaving you room for that sub in your budget if you still feel you need one.
Although I am not sure about the bass after reading several reviews.It seems they basically cut off at 70hz. Not 40hz as claimed by the maker.
But still, they get high praise for solid sound. Thanks -
Hukk
Mine do not cut out at 70 Hz. In fact, they go down into the 35-40 Hz range. And those are the VR1s; the MTM version goes lower. The reviews I've read confirm my experience, so I don't know where you're getting the negative information.
You don't know where I am getting the negative information -- I would assume that one obvious beginning point would be a Google search for 'Von Schweikert VR-1 review'? The first result, Audioholics, includes this frequency response graph:http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/bookshelf/von-schweikert-audio-vr-1/nearfield.jpg/image_view_fullscreen
This shows a marked dip in response below the mid-80s.
The 2nd result, Soundstage, has a link to frequency response graphs at the top of the review:
http://www.soundstagemagazine.com/measurements/vonschweikert_vr1/
It plainly shows a nose-dive in response below 70 hz.
Reading more, I see that the company requires the speakers to be placed near the back wall to attain their claimed low-40s number. Fair point.
What is the "MTM" version you mentioned?
Hukk
Cables are speltz Anti-Cables ICs and speaker wire.
I tend to find most V.A. speakers too warm so I may not be the best person to respond here.
The Green Mountain Audio Callistos do everything you are asking for except that I suspect you may not find their bass adequate. They are far more transparent than any V.A. speaker I've heard.
The now-discontinued J. M Reynaud Trente is another speaker close to the mark but possibly missing a bit of bass. I have not heard the new Cantabile Signature which may not qualify since it is a floorstander but on paper it seems like it should give you the bass you are seeking.
Another floorstander, the discontinued ProAc Response 2.5 is fairly close to your description. They would be in your price range used.
Used Sonus Fabers could be another option if you are willing to consider used speakers.
I have heard Green Mountain monitors -- although it was the Europa, not the callisto -- and they were the extreme opposite of what I am looking for.They featured extreme accuracy and speed, no warmth, and a complete lack of bass.
Sounds to me as thought the Europa's you heard were not broken in. You have to beat the crap out of them for months to break them in fully. The bass improves dramatically after break-in, though you'll not get much output below 45hz with them. Lots of direct comparison's on Audiogon between the VR-1's and the Europa's.....worth doing a search there. The GMA Callisto's are in a completely different league. Flat out amazing speaker. 6moons.com did a review on them a while back. It's there in the archives.
Reynauds, at least the older ones, and most Sonus Fabers are warmer than Green Mountain speakers. If you think Green Mountains are voiced on the cool side of neutral I would not agree. Spendor SP 1/2s are warmish and do some of the things you want but they don't throw a huge soundfield or have chest thumping bass. None of the above are as warm as some Vienna Acoustics I've heard.
I'm after neutrality and transparency so my advice comes in that context.
You won't like Harbeths or Merlins either.
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