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192.146.1.16
I hate questions like this, I know you have to listen and decide for yourself, but I am in a jam. I'm being offered a good deal on the RM25's, and there is no Vandy dealer close for me to listen.
I'm just curious if anyone here has direct experience with the 2 speakers. Or even different models....Thanks!
Follow Ups:
12.5 X 13.5, so it's almost square and small, I'm going to listen to the RM 25's again tomorrow, and may see about bringing them home for an audition. It's always so darn hard with the guilt trip that (some) dealers lay on you, that I want to be 95% sure before doing it. Any comments on how the RM's will work in a small room? is this too much speaker?
Sometimes you just need to bounce this stuff off of like minded people that think like you do. You guys helped me get my thoughts together.My biggest concern on the JA's was the lower mids to bass, and that was confirmed not to be only my opinion. I definitly will wait until I get to audition the 3a's before jumping. I've heard the Quattros an liked them a lot, if the 3a's are close....I'll be happy.
You really need to go listen to both and try to get a dealer to let you try them at home for a few days. I own speakers from both Joseph and Vandersteen. Both are excellent though I've got apples and oranges. My 3As are warm, laid back, a tad polite and a little picky on amplification to sound their best. I'm also using Jeff's insiders in my media room and am amazed with these little devils. The coherence and bass from these little guys is fantastic. I've heard the larger models only at shows and never noticed any issue with lower mids or bass at all.If anything, I'd say that the Joseph character lies more toward the nuetral side whereas Vandersteen definately tends toward a warmer house sound. Which you prefer depends on you and the assiciated equipment.
-Rod
Hi,I appreciate the fine posts by all in this thread. I would simply add that the lower midrange/bass region on all loudspeakers is very room & placement dependent. We tune for best bass extension and definition, but placement of the speakers of listener close to room boundaries may accentuate the bass region. I suggest that if you experiment with placement of the RM25XL's you will get the optimum balance without too much trouble.
Jeff
but I have listened to both very carefully in very good listening setups. Though I am an owner of Vandersteens, I had been told several times that I should listen to these Joseph Audio speakers if I wanted to make a real step up. I did, and I was disappointed. From the center of the midrange and up the JA speakers sounded nice, but going down in frequency I found them to be increasing congested and lacking in resolution. Now I normally only listen to classical music and use solo instrumental music- cellos, viloins, pianos, etc. - as an important part of evaluating speakers, because I know what they sound like and that's the kind of music I listen to. The JAs just did not do well FOR ME on the any of these in the lower frequency ranges. However, some popular music was put on, and it sounded pretty good as near as I can tell. I have a hard time judging speakers with popular music. The place I listened to the JAs had me move up to the next level JA speakers. They were better, but still had the same characteristics. The store than had me try Wilson Watt Puppies, which i found too colored and the original version of the Wilson Sophia, which I actually liked, but not as much as my Vanderteen 5s.The latest version of the the Vandersteen 3A Signatures are, to MY ears, much more satisfying speakers. The entire lower mid-range and on down is finely detailed, so that you hear the bit of the bow on strings of a cello and so on. When people say they find Vandersteens laid back, I think they mean they are not "in your face." They do not have exaggerated highs, but a very smooth, flat frequency response. They are not initially "impressive" speakers unless their type of sound is just what you have been looking for. They just let the music come out and get out of the way. I am sure they are not for everybody, as tastes differ.
So, it sounds like I am a salesman for Vandersteen, which I assure you is not the case- just a happy owner who listened to more than 75 speakers before I chose them! I happen to like the kind of sound they make, but others prefer different kinds of sound from other speakers, and I would never say they are wrong. Speakers can sound very different, and i would never say one is better than another. I would just say I prefer one to another.
I was very hesitant to write this, because JA speakers are in fact very fine speakers, and Mr. Joseph has a business to run. Who am I to be critical of his products? That is a valid question, and I really mean what I said in the subject line of this post. I could well imagine many people who weigh various aspects of performance different from me would prefer JA speakers. Somebody else wrote a strong note of support for JA speakers over Vandies, so I write this as a slight cautionary note.
I would suggest two possible courses of action. Simply wait until you can hear Vandersteens before making your decision. Be patient. It may mean making a special trip or taking advantage of a special opportunity, but you will likely live with your choice for a fair a bit of time (unless you are one of those people who buys and sells equipment all the time.) Some years ago I had to wait five months before I had an opportunity to hear JM Reynaud speakers, and that came only when I was on a trip to London; I live in California. Of course that's rather extreme. Your alternative is to listen very carefully and at length to the JA speakers and judge them in some absolute rather than comparative sense. You have to ask yourself if you really like listening to them, are they really satisfying, do they play the kinds of music you like the way you like to hear it? Do you find it hard to stop listening? Do they make you forget the speakers and make you listen to the music? If the answers to these questions are positive, then you can buy the JA speakers with the expectation that they will very likely provide you with a lot of satisfaction.
Whew! I went on a long time here. I hope it helps. And for what it's worth, should Jeff Joseph read this, I do not in any way want to imply that your speakers are poor or faulty. As I said, i think they are very fine, but in the world of very fine speakers, different people hear the same speaker with different reactions. No speaker is perfect, so a lot depends on what aspects of performance are most important to you. I would never but a speaker without hearing it, and I would never expect anyone to buy a speaker based on what I told them.
Joe
1. Lower midrange/ bass region is very room and placement dependent.
Drawing firm conclusions on this without listening in the familiar environment of your listening is not possible.2. If you are in the Bay area, you haven't heard the 25XL. You may have heard its predecessor the 25si Mk2, but not what Atver is asking about. The 25XL has 50% larger magnets and 50% larger voice coils on the woofers. It is capable of extraodinary definition and bass control, given the correct setup.
Jeff
Jeff, how come you don't have any info on this speaker on your website, or am I missing something? Hasn't it been out a while?
Thanks
You are of course absolutely correct that rooms and placement can strongly affect the lower frequencies (high ones too). In my search for speakers I made it a point to hear any speakers that I thought were contenders in more than one place and if at all possible in my home. I also requested many times that the speakers be moved a bit so I could develop some sense of the sensitivity of placement in that room at least. I should have emphasized that I had had only this one hearing of your speakers.Yes, I did hear them in what I thought was a very fine store in the SF East Bay. The people were highly professional and took great care to set up each pair of speakers I listened to. This store ranks among the better I have been in anywhere. I'm sorry that I didn't catch the change in model suffix, and I did hear its predecessor. I'm sure they are better and will listen to them when I get a chance. I did listen to the next JA model up that they had, but unfortunately they did not have your top model available for listening. I was quite interested in that model, but I'm sure I will have the cahnce to hear it someday.
I probably should have never made the post to begin with. Speakers are sort of like cars. They come in a variety of qualities and degrees of refinements, and everybody really has to do their own test driving. Though I've been on the quest for ever better sound for 45 years, it still largely a question of my preferences when it comes to gear, and I claim no general applicability for those preferences. I happen not to like Porsches at all, but I would never say they are not great cars, and what difference does it really make what I think about them?
Joe
I cannot speak for the Joseph - haven't heard them. But I can speak for the Vandy's (see my review farther down). If you strive for accurate and realistic production of acoustic instruments with a great bottom end, then the 3A Sigs are a terrific choice. If your sonic priorities lie somewhere else, then who knows - you'll have to listem for yourself. Keep in mind that the Vandy's allow for adjusting the mid and tweeter levels so you can tailor the sound for your set-up. Good luck.
Mark
Vandy's are always a good bet they may not be the V best out there but they also will never ever cause yr ears to bleed.
Smooth is a V worthwhile attribute.. you can live with it for years
Go for the Josephs. Clean and clear and coherent on all types of music.Vandys are o.k. but a little too polite for my tastes.
They are so different sounding you really need to listen for yourself and see which presentation you preffer. I like the Vandy's. Pprobably the slight majority would choose the Josephs.
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