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Hi,I have used box speakers for all of my audiophile life. I am considering purchasing a used pair of Magnepan 20.1 speakers. I have never heard them before and it will not be easy to hear a pair first. I am could get a good price on them. What are the main advantages of a planer speaker over a box speaker? How is the bass on the 20.1's. Can they play loud rock or are they more for classical?
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HiI do try to keep an objective stance. Not knowing your present box speakers. I cannot simply say the MG 2.1 would be better. It is not better than a Wilson X-2, a Dynaudio Evidence Master or the Von Schweikert VR-9SE or 11..
But since you mentioned similarly priced speakers the MG 20 has no peer in its price range be they planar or boxed. It can be a revelation. You better take your lexicon of superlatives. It requires a good front end and serious amplification, at least 200 watts/ch and requires patience to properly place it in a room, especially if you have no previous planar experience. Once that is done (will take you a great deal of time) you will have a speaker that goes as low as 25 Hz clean and with authority (if your amps is solid enough) and goes up there where the bats converse, around 40 KHz, a Soundstage that few words can do justice to and a seamless sound... Can it play rock? It will shake the foundation of your house if the front end is adequate (and the placement). Dipole bass is subjectively more accurate than box bass and in the case of the MG 20.1 this could be the best mid-bass in term of level, power and authority you would have heard this side of the famed Dunleavy SC-VI or Duntech Sovereign of yore.
Speakers that are better than the 20.1 cost many multiples its MSRP at least 3 and even then, it is more of a judgment call than a clean cut “better”. If you can get them you are in for a real treat. One of the best speakers around this one, regardless of price.Sorry about all the effusion but they are that good!
Hi, Frank,
I can't speak to the Maggies from experience. A great speaker, obviously. I just want to relate that I'm about to acquire the new Marten Design "Miles III" speakers (martendesign.com, Sweden). After attending several audio shows (Rocky Mountain last month), I recently heard the personal system of the Marten importer, Dan Meinwald. I'm sold. The Martens may require a new class of their own...A+. There are several rave reviews on positive-feedback.com, particularly the new Duke monitors (Issue 19) and the Miles II floorstander (Issue 17). On the Miles, the guy concludes by saying that he had dreamed of the Maggie 20.1s, but now sees the Miles as the most refined speakers in the class. On the Dukes, the reviewer says he achieved headphone resolution with speakers for the first time...and in relation to AKG K1000s. My dream was the Kharma 3.2 monitors. Now it's Marten. The new Miles III is a beautiful modern slim tower, est. price $11-12,000. Good luck in your quest!
I used Magnepans for 20 years of my audio life. I purchased a used pair of Aerial 7b's. I never heard them before and bought them site unseen and sound unheard (okay I heard their baby brother's the Model 6 in the showroom). I got a good price for my Maggie 3.5R's. I got my Aerials for a good price. I had no trouble at all getting the Aerials to sound right in my room from day one. I never got my 3 different pairs of Maggies to sound right in any room over 20 years. They could play loud with 200 watts per side but always blew speaker fuses when playing really loud rock. I loved my Maggies and they were/are special. The 20's will need a big room and lots and lots of power. I guarantee you do not have enough power for the 20.1's and will have to buy an amp(s), mo money. Having said that, they are incredible but not for everyone and every room. I would not consider them without subs and outboard XO's or Vandy subs, and not without huge mono block amps. That would be something special. I never got bass out of my Maggie's like I get out of the Aerials.
And... Shahinian Diapason - at about the same price as 20.1's - or Hawks at a lesser price - definately not a Box speaker but does the same things a planar does.
As a former magnepan owner from way back, I think the first thing that you have to acknowledge is that they just sound "different" than box speakers.I agree with everything below regarding placement, amp power (more is better), and dynamic limitations for things like rock music. OTOH, Magnepans do some of the best reproduction of an acoustic piano that I've heard.
I would be very leery of buying these without having heard at least one pair of Magnepans and deciding whether you like that kind of sound.
Part of the quality of the bass of the bigger Magnepans is because they are dipole radiators and load the room differently than a monopole bass radiator. However, there are a few dipole bass radiators that use conventional cone speakers; and I have not heard them. So, that's an alternative. That said, I think all dipole speakers, cone or panel, are, by nature, pretty placement sensitive.
I own 20.1's. Yes they can be finicky to set-up and do require a lot of clean power to sound good, but I have found that even set up casually and with less than optimal electronics they are very good. No box system in my experience can match the open, wide soundstage and transparent mids and highs of a well designed planar (like a magnepan). Ultimate dynamics and bass slam are somewhat diminished, but overall musical satisfaction with a wide variety of music is very, very high. Eliminating the box is a very good thing in my opinion.
magnepan's design is actually one of the best out there. other similar designs seem half baked or just can't play very loud. while the dispersion characteristics are more conducive to good room acoustics than radially dispersing drivers, if you have them set up wrong, or are not flexable with placement, they might not be right for you. with a good understanding of room acoustics and a buttload of power, the 20.1r's will give a presentation large, loud, deep, and focused. even if setting them up becomes a learning experience, the results of setting them up right are very rewarding.
Personally I would not buy them unless you can hear them first. The notion of compairing them to ALL boxed speakers is ludicrous to me. I have heard both the 1.6 and 3.6 and I liked the 1.6 a lot for the money and would seriously suggest anyone to give them a try because they do have a holographic veyr big soundstage compared to most any boxed speaker at the price -- but that applies left to right and not front to back and the speaker was better by many speakers in bass depth and quality of bass sound.The 3.6 ios a bigger version but I don't see as high a value in them because there are boxed speakers in the price range that sound just as open present bigger scale and much much much better bass and tonal cues. Add in that difficulty to position them (many never get them right so they end up selling them from people I know who've had them). The 20.1 is even bigger impradctical and tougher to get right. When confronted with speakers that are REALLY HARD to position and get right you have to listen to them first and in the room you intend to use them in.
Another suggestion you might consider is going to a dealer to hear the 3.6 - listen to a wide array of stuff including rock - if you like what they do then the 20.1 is bound to impress. I would suggest things you know have a 3dimensional stage and other stuff that has bass dynamics. I would listen for cohesive sound from top to bottom and decay on acoustic instruments that I find many boxes do much better. The thing is that all speakers make trade-offs so your job is to find the speaker with the trade-offs that you can live with in the long run and that you can get the best out of int he space they're to be put.
I find that when set up correctly, with amps that are neutral and that can play a high degree of detail in the bass reproduction, the Maggies will give you a much more natural and real quality of bass production. Real bass instruments right in the room n front of you and with real bass dynamics. Long time Maggie owners will understand your statements being suspect of Maggie bass. But those who have experimented with them over a long period of time know that there can be a night and day difference between how they reproduce bass frequencies and the other bands for that matter. At their best, after 25 years of playing with them, they are amazing. I have not heard any other high end box speaker do what I have heard the Maggies do and that includes Wilsons.
But I have never heard the 20 s.And the larger Wilson speakers can surely do low bass, even if you prefer the Maggie mid bass or bass.
- This signature is two channel only -
Well I would not trade you my $3500.00 standmounts for the Wilson Sophias -- iof this is what Wilson is about (in a professionally set up and treated room created FOR the speaker using $70k worth of Krell power amplification and Mark Levinson preamp and cd player) and my standmounts have better and very possibly deeper bass response and don;t need those amps to wrestle it out. So yes it's all in what one is directly comparing them to.The 1.6 had resopnably decent bass - no amopunt of positioning can make them better than they were because they don't like corners - they simply do not produce deep bass and even in the midbass, on rock, they sounded like they were well well down and distant. The soundstage was massive up and down and left to right but the depth of body of instrumental decay and tone were 2dimensional. The speaker was also bright in the upper mid lower treble - which caused the listeners to exclaim they were bright. They also don;t like any kind of volume.
I don't want this to sound negative because I have heard many of the dealers other boxed speakers and many boxed speakers over the years that have some of if not all of the same problems. Consider the more expensive B&W 705 for example - it has no bass, lousy dynamics, also does not do tonality very well, beams, lacks a deep stage (and when it does seems fake, so dollar for dollar the 1.6 with it's big stage and "clarity" and holographics despite its flaws lays a whole world of hurt on the 705 and most of the speakers tht I have heard "like" the B&W 705.
Hearing a live drum kit and then listening to any panel I have ever heard so far, and other than Martin Logan who KNOW that they need a boxed woofer to get real bass, I won't soon be going the panel route. I have been told that big Apogees are an exception but then the bigger the speaker the further away from a point source the speakers get. ML has obvious audible problems in their bigger panels as the soud is stretched over a bigger area when it should not be. ML also doesn't get those woofers to integrate -- but I like the effort and I like some of their speakers a great deal -- Though maggie offers a much better value in my opinion.
The 20.1 I have never ever heard so it may offer the panacea.
One of them is an Inmate here that goes by Goyescas.
He hangs out on Vinyl Asylum, you could email him if you like ?
I currently own Von Schweikert's brand new Vortex Screens!
They are only 4 grand factory direct!
They are 96 db efficient, and have 15 inch woofers, and shake the room like a pair of Velodynes.
They sound amazingly close to a Vandersteen 5A.
In other words, they get musical timbre correct.
They weigh 200 lbs each, and stand over 50 inches high.
There are many other great speakers out there to listen to besides the Magnepans.
Do yourself a favor, get the recommendations of some other Inmates here, and go listen.
Magnepans are great speakers, but ultimately room dependant.
They want to be placed where they want to be, NOT where you may like em to go!
Good luck on your quest!
I used to own 3.6 and have heard the 20.1 on several occasions. The 20.1 are phenomenal speakers. The soundstage is huge. The bass sounded very strong to me. I didn't audition it with rock so I can't offer comments on it. I did hear it with jazz and classical. The sound was very well balanced and quite natural sounding. The mids aren't as transparent and natural as a pair of Quads (nothing is) but they are as good as anything else out there. A pair of dynamic speakers that also impressed me is the Vandersteen 5A. The 5A has better bass, more controlled and defined. It's a bit mellower sounding compared to the 20.1. I would definitely audition both before making a purchase. By the way, Magnepans in general require a lot of attention to matching equipment and positioning. They need A LOT of room behind them for them to sound their best. Make sure you have a large enough room to accomodate the 20.1.
use to be a Maggie owner way back: Tympani 1Ds. I would own a pair of Maggies in a jiff if I had the room. That being said, the 20.1s (this is redundant I realize) need oodles of room and a couple of bridged Bryston 4Bs at the least. Now that is some very serious wattage, and the Maggies will drink it up. That may be affordable, but I, having owned Bryston, would want something more like YBA, JRDG or the like. Can get pretty hairy $$ wise. The sound of planars is quite addicting, but they are not for everyone. Very problematic with setup. good luck.
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