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In Reply to: Re: B&W Nautilus 804 - review posted posted by John Ashman on October 30, 2004 at 20:18:42:
John...just curious as to what specific speakers you do like and highly recommend for full range dynamics (less than say $3000)? thanks
Follow Ups:
Well, I'll keep it to stuff I don't sell and have heard:1. PSB Stratus Goldis - A little dated, but smooth, powerful, dynamic. Lacking mainly in resolution and have more soundstage than precision imaging, but are an exceptional pure R&R speaker.
2. Paradigm Studio 100s (V1/V2) - Dynamic and detailed sounding. A little bright, but good construction and good integration. A good alternative to B&Ws as they're a better value, but have a similar sound, but not as pronounced and far more accurate.
3. Thiel CS2.3 - These have probably topped $3K by now, but I believe they came out under $3K originally and seem to rise in price every year. Or is that the 2.4 now? Anyway, groovy if not terribly deep bass, excellent soundstage and imaging. A little thin in the lower midrange, but they do have some superb characteristics not found in some other high-end speakers. Not good for high volume listening though as they get shrill at high volumes as the limitations of the 1st order crossover becomes apparent.
That's all I can think of off hand. I'm sure I'm missing something obvious, but it's not coming to me. To be honest, I'm out in BF SouthWest where there's not much good competition to listen to. One of the things that I see that is screwed up is the trend towards smaller, peakier, more midbassy drivers instead of good single large woofers that do well at low frequencies. It just doesn't make sense to use a 6" driver for a midrange and then 2 or 3 6" drivers for bass. 2.5-way designs also don't make sense. 8" is the bare minimum size for a woofer in a 3-way design, but 10" or 12" typically is better. The incredible shrinking woofer(s) has more to do with making a speaker easier to sell than actually sounding better. Women like small, narrow cabinets. The woofers on the B&W N804/N803 are too small and compromised. The woofer on the N801 is too big and was marketing driven. The N802/N800 actually make sense for the midrange.
". It just doesn't make sense to use a 6" driver for a midrange and then 2 or 3 6" drivers for bass."Umm your describing the Paradigms - I'd agree on the V2 the V1 was overly shrill and had apparently horrible treble. The V2 I found a better buy than the CDM 9NT just because the 9NT was SOOOOOOO expensive(double the price) and the 100V2 did most everything just as well. So in this regard I'd agree. You'll probably be woefully dissapointed in the V3 which has a hollow sounding effect in the midrange and poor bass and dynamics for a speaker that went up $500.00Cdn?
I do agree with you generally on your take on stacked 6 inch multiple drivers in slim cabinets. Almost none of them are good IMO. However, I will suggest you try some Dynaudio's and PMC speakers as examples of a few that do this style well. I'd suggest Totem if they would cut every model's price by 30-50%.
Your posts have made me want to re-try the Thiels - but you seem to express the limitations I heard years ago with them - so perhaps they're not suited it would seem to amplified music but prefer acoustic - this is fine if you know it going in and perhaps that's why I was dissapoined - I have too much of a wide music collection for a speaker not to play R&R at louder levels while also doing Beethoven and Vivaldi Piano, Oboe and Voilin. Then there's trance music and dance/pop.
Don't get me wrong, the Thiels aren't exactly my favorites, but they do have fantastic imaging and have low level detail, so I prefer them to the B&Ws. Triads are really great, but they don't do towers for some reason. Their sub/sats are pretty impressive. So, Thiel is a great speaker that also has significant handicaps. But the B&Ws, to me are just plain overpriced and don't have any distinguishing characteristics that would make them worth more money over good affordable stuff, except for reputation and that love it or hate it midrange coloration.I did notice a little brightness on the V1s, but not as bad as some of the B&Ws and they had solid, quick, neutral, well-integrated bass and could play loud without straing. And they cost $1800 vs $5500 N803s which would be the obvious competitor from the B&W line. I haven't heard V3s, but was disappointed with the configuration. I think they're trying too hard to try to be B&W now with the yellow cones and thin design.
Thanks very much John - your thoughts are interesting..btw, what speakers would you include that you do sell and also those > 4,000 (i might find some used)?
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