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In Reply to: Shindo amps and DIY posted by Janos on March 26, 2007 at 15:57:06:
As I see, DIY is just like martial arts. From 1000 student only one or even less gets to the black belt level. Because someone starts DIY does not mean he instantly gets black belt and becomes Lynn Olson or J. C. Verdier.>>>Well, it's not that simple. You don't even have to be an electrical engineer to successfully build a tube amp or preamp. Even one as good as the fabled $10,000 types. You need the skills to build, an understanding of what componants to use and why you prefer componant A to componant B, and above all you need to make the right choices of circuit and tubes.
I found that it was fairly easy to choose resistors and capacitors and even transformers - a few basic searches were enough to round up the usual suspects, and then several hours of listening tests confirmed the results.
The schematic to use took longer to work out - you need to be familiar with filament supplies, constant current sinks, balanced operation in my case, and why and where using transformers is a better choice than caps. Quite a lot of reading and phoning friends in that process - cumulative knowledge. Not creative, just a lot to learn.
But it's the concept where I feel most people go wrong, as I did for years and years. There are so many people about that say "build this, build that" with the conviction that they believe it's worked for them. I believed in Leak amps. I heard better and I didn't. I believed in EL84s. I heard better triodes and I didn't. I believed in 6SN7 and 12b4 preamps. I heard tubes like 1626 and didn't any more. One after another all the cherished beliefs based on others' recommendations went up in smoke. Until one day a friend said "try a 26". My mouth hit the floor. It wasn't the best DHT I later found, after going through about 20 different types of DHT, but it was so much better than any other small tube I'd heard it just stopped my building in its tracks. Now I only use DHTs right through.
So look at this situation. I could build good amps years ago. But to build a great amp needed me to disregard about 98% of other builders and their advice. So clearly some kind of personality trait comes in here in the first place - originality, bloody mindedness, rebelliousness - just to get as far as using a DHT small tube (plenty of folks use DHT output tubes). Since this kind of mental process is the first stage of creativity - keep a totally open mind and don't make any assumptions you haven't personally tried and tested - then there probably is some kind of mind set involved in the perfect amp.
The way I see it is there are innumerable good builders out there and plenty of guys with good electronics skills. They are simply not making the right choices because they can't get outside the assumptions they start off with. A lot of engineers I know are almost pig-headed in their adherence to old beliefs they trained in (partly for understandable technical and safety reasons, partly because they don't update their thinking, partly because they don't see outside the box). Some are inspirational and have the creativity to try radical solutions just for the hell of it.
Knowledge will get you so far, but if you want to go the rest of the way you need lateral creative thinking.
Follow Ups:
Andy,Thank you for sharing you DIY journey.
"Well, it's not that simple. You don't even have to be an electrical engineer to successfully build a tube amp or preamp. Even one as good as the fabled $10,000 types. You need the skills to build, an understanding of what componants to use and why you prefer componant A to componant B, and above all you need to make the right choices of circuit and tubes."
Eventually, you don't have to be a black belt level to defend yourself effectively, either... my brother at the age of 6 was harassed by older kids at school, and learned to defend himself in a few (free;) lessons (cost him a few ouch!-es, though..;). One confrontation after the lessons, between him, and 5 much older kids taught those guys a lesson that he was left without harassment for the rest of the 8 years he spent at school. But he is as far from a martial artist, as a beginner diy-er with schematics reading and soldering skills is from Kondo or Shindo san, despite the fact he had a super-lucky start.
For DIY, to come up with something "great", you truly need to reinvestigate what is out there, and not to take anything for granted. For one thing, everything can be applied only in context, and you can be sure, when you are DIY-ing, you are placing more and more out of the regular context.
I am super lucky (and unfortunate enough;) not to have a formal electronics training. So, I end up with very unconventional solutions, just to learn later that someone already been that way 2 or 20 years ago... for example, I came up with the idea to use rectifier tube for power supply FILTERING. Instead of a CLC or CRC filter, use a C-tube-C filter! Tubes have low DC resistance, and relatively much higher AC resistance, so that should be a great means to reduce ripple! I was so happy I discovered something new, until a DIY brother of mine found an old, pre-world war 2 Hungarian manual that recommended using a pentode instead of a choke, and claimed that a pentode with a high Ra is as effective as a high inductance choke. Well, I have built a breadboard preamp with type 26 tubes, and a C-tube-C-tube-C filter (10 uF 650VAC oils, 6aq5), but have not got to fire it up yet.......
Who knows, it might turn out to be something different......
Janos
Well, I have built a breadboard preamp with type 26 tubes, and a C-tube-C-tube-C filter (10 uF 650VAC oils, 6aq5), but have not got to fire it up yet.......> >
Andy, it is clear you have been lucky enough to have some good friends to help and guide you along the way. Think how much longer the journey would have been without them. Chances are we would not have gotten where we are anywhere near as soon, if ever.I think many play it safe. They think "if all these big names" use certain valves there must be a solid reason. They, without knowing it, close doors to the best sound possible. It is a shame but it is understandable. Why re-invent the wheel huh?
But some of us have been round and round on that same old wheel for too long and we know where it leads. All the same, just small differences. If you want to get to someplace new it takes trying something very different. Congrats on finding a new wheel to ride and remember to keep looking and trying even if you are so happy you don't wish to change:)
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