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In Reply to: Shindo amps and DIY posted by Janos on March 26, 2007 at 15:57:06:
Janos,
From your post, I can see that you have a very deep passion for DIY. I would go further and say that DIY for you is an expression of your art. One of the things I see in many of great builders is that their work goes beyond just a piece of stereo gear and is an expression of their art. The way you talk about DIY is how I talk about cooking and food, about Japanese knives, music, and a few other things. Perhaps one day, people will be talking about Janos audio products.
Unfortunately, one lesson I have learned is that no matter how passionate I am about something, not everyone will see it the same through their eyes. From dedicated seekers of DIY knowledge to proud Shindo owners, this can be a hard pill to swallow. I'm the type who comes home from a hard days work and will still prepare an intricate meal, spending the time to reduce a sauce etc.... I'll even plate a dish as if I'm serving it in a restaurant. My mom always says I'm nuts. For her, food is just food. For me food is an art and a craft to be perfected.I will say that your statement that "most of us are lazy" is a bit harsh. The reality is that we all have different goals and we have to respect and accept that fact. For many of the people on this forum, they care about the music and/or the sound and not necessarily the means. I would wager that a large number of people who started on DIY did so out of practical necessity, i.e. they could not afford the commercial gear they wanted. I would say that I fall into that category. It's not that I don't like to build stuff or experiment, but I prefer building scale models to stereo gear and if I wanted to experiment, I just walk into my lab (I'm a scientist after all). DIY, for me, was a means to an end no more no less. My art is expressed through my cooking not amp building. When I discovered Shindo stuff, I was fortunate enough to have the financial means to buy the gear. At that point, my goal was achieved and DIY became unnecessary. On the financial level, you are correct that 'your time' is free. However, for someone who feels time pressure from work, family, etc., time is a precious commodity. I may have a passion for music, I do not have the same passion for building gear that you or Ken have. It's not about ability, patience, or being discouraged by listening to a great amp, it's about passion. I'd rather spend my free time doing something I'm passionate about. BTW- I'm never discouraged by listening to a great amp. I just walk to my living room and turn it on.
I do certainly support you in encouraging people to try DIY. It is where I started just not where I ended. I think a lot of people are not lazy but scared to try DIY. They think it is too hard or afraid that what they build will not work. If I had a dollar for every dish that failed. Whether people have the strong desire for DIY or not, there is a lot to be learned from doing it. It helps you understand what an audio designer goes through and the compromises they have to make in a designed. It also helps one tell a piece of overpriced crap from a real work of art.
Janos, I recognize your dedication to the pursuit of DIY even if I don't share it.
Follow Ups:
Hello Rick,I am really, really behind the great amp builders, but am fortunate to know some, and share the quest to get to know how to work with amps and other audio gear. So far, I have received much more from them than what I could give in return. But I guess that's the way it is, you receive from those who know better, and give to those who need your support. Kyle is very quiet, and most he would say about his Double DC Darling amp that "it sounds all right". I think it's one of the most captivating amps I ever hear, and listening to it at my place lead to almost everyone present deciding right away to build one! You bet, there was no talk about sonic qualities, it was about the music. For three of us, that was the beginning of serious DIY, our very first amps. He helped us to redesign the schematics for the damper tubes I had in mind to use for rectification, and to order all the parts, plus he gave us loads of quality parts, basically for free.
But it's no wonder similar people wind up getting to know each other. I also have a fascination for japanese knives, and aa few of my friends think I am obsessed with cooking. And of course, with baroque music......
So far, I don't think I'll get to building amps for sale, as I raraly get things finished. My problem is that I have way too many ideas, and before I finish one, I already am fully absorbed with something else. I need to get down to Earth, and learn some patience and perseverance.... I'm a scientist, too, and my ex-boss was saying the world is full of ideas, we need hard working people. ;).
DIY is really getting to me.... I'm starting to apply it to my research projects, too... that's scary.
"Unfortunately, one lesson I have learned is that no matter how passionate I am about something, not everyone will see it the same through their eyes. "
That is a great lesson. My mentor reminded me of the same. TOns of people were harrassing him over the last decade to come up with his products, but he was saying everyone has a clear picture of what they want to hear, and if he comes up with something, it will be what he likes, not those, who want to buy it. So, he's keen to find out what each person wants, and lead him to that sound. For those, who would like to DIY, he shows how to mod the amp / tonearm / TT / cartridge / CD transport or you name-it, and for those, who are not DIY-inclined, he does the mod himself. You bring any gear to him, and he'll modify it to sound better, be it an old Pioneer CD player, an exclusive Jadis preamp, or the cartridge of the year.
"I'm the type who comes home from a hard days work and will still prepare an intricate meal, spending the time to reduce a sauce etc.... I'll even plate a dish as if I'm serving it in a restaurant. My mom always says I'm nuts. For her, food is just food. For me food is an art and a craft to be perfected."Wow, I admire you! I feel the same with gongfu cha..... ;) But I have a lot to learn about the art of tea-drinking and making from Leonard, one of my close DIY-friends. He has taught me how much an excellent meal can improve the quality of listening to music, as he is also a dedicated chef, like you, and not just a bachelor of erratic, inspirational cooking like me... it sometimes turns of very tasty, sometimes a disappointment...... :()
Well, I wrote too much... time to read and do something productive ;).
Good luck!
I need to get down to Earth, and learn some patience and perseverance.... I'm a scientist, too, and my ex-boss was saying the world is full of ideas, we need hard working people. ;)> >That's only what a hard working person would say. A creative person would say "the world is full of hard working people, we need ideas". The truth is we need both, but the advances in civilisation don't come from hard work, they come from ideas.
"Unfortunately, one lesson I have learned is that no matter how passionate I am about something, not everyone will see it the same through their eyes. "> > >
The real eye opener is to reverse engineer this statement:
"one lesson I have learned is that the thing I may in future become passionate about is that thing that others will not see in the same way through their eyes."
is a culmination of concept and HARD work. I have many ideas, but if I never take the time and effort to build the sculptures or paint the paintings, I have not created or contributed anything of worth to myself and/or others.Besides that, an idea requires testing to confirm its validity. Many apparantly good ideas fail when put to the test of actualization. Once we build and listen we realize the shortcomings as well as strengths [if any] of the concept.
However, the building process also tends to generate a plethroa of new ideas and solutions previously unknown, that may well work better.
Think Leonardo DaVinci and Philo Farnsworth.
As for audio, the DIY experience always starts out of the practicality and constraints of economy, but one quickly discovers that it also offers more opportunities for application and utilization that market forces limit. The freedom to use absolutely ANY tube, iron and PS, etc. you want.
How many 316 linestage amps, GM70, or 75TL amps can you find on the open market? Have you ever heard a 304TL or GM100 DHSET amp?
Most people will never know, much less appreciate what this kind of esoteric audio on these fringes sounds like, but believe me, the payoff is remarkable and fulfilling. Only the DIY practitioner can find this.....and only through actually building the amp he conceptualizes.
In the end, the reward of both Art and DIY audio is directly proportional to the effort expended on both conceptualizing and realizing the project.
Hi Dave,Where ya been hiding? I'd like to hear some of the tubes you mention.
I just can't get out of 'Cane country. :) The f2a tube is pretty cool
too. The PHY have never sounded better and I'm back to buying lotsa music.
Good to see you posting again Les. I have not seen you for a while either. I hang out with the bad boys on outside mostly, but occasionally cruise over here to stir things up.I did some upgrades while finishing my speakers that improved the sound quite a bit. I'll send you some pics.
I am curious about the F2a tube. From the pics, it looks like a cross between KT88 and some EL34, both pentodes. If so, I would assume that the amp in question runs in triode mode rather than UL. Otherwise, it remains unknown to us.
I am with you on buying more music. It seems that I can't afford everything I want....But I keep trying. :)
Take care.
Dave,"I have many ideas, but if I never take the time and effort to build the sculptures or paint the paintings, I have not created or contributed anything of worth to myself and/or others."
I feel the same way. Whatever I came up with so far turned out to be already used somewhere, tried out by someone. However, most of the findings are either not understood, or came at the wrong place / time - or already have failed the tests, and went down the drain.
When you open up a tube manuals, there are well over 10.000 types of vacuum tubes manufactured. Of these, only a tiny fraction is used for audio. There is so much yet undiscovered and untouched! There are issues, that are still unresolved, like volume control, or the right way to build a digital source. Plenty of excitement ahead of us...... :)
I tend to oscillate between music listening periods, and DIY-er periods. Sometimes I get so absorbed in music, that I stop DIY for months. Sometimes I get so nuts about DIY, that I forget enjoying music. The balance is hard to find, but is the secret of DIY-zen. :)
Janos
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