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In Reply to: Re: help me sort out the sounds (45, 2A3, 300B) posted by Jim Hodgson on March 23, 2007 at 01:38:59:
Hi Jim,I own Don Garber's Fi 45 (the prototype) and have had his X, 421A and 2A3 monoblocks here as well as a bunch of other SETs including a pair of JC Morrison's 6B4G monoblocks. I also happen to own the Shindo Cortese. Oh yea, and I know the guys at In Living Stereo. Granted, I didn't know them back when some of them were building their own SETs or when they were selling Komuro’s amps, but long enough to know your colorful characterization misses the mark. By a very long shot.
It is interesting though how little credit we give people who've worked in this industry for decades…
Anyway, that's a very generous offer you've made and I'll echo yours and the others recommendation - you have to hear things for yourself. Ideally with your own speakers. I'd also suggest Jeffrey shoot Srajan an email since he owned the Zu Druids and owns the Zu Definitions and has used a bunch of amps with them (srajan@6moons.com) including the Yamamoto A08S.
It seems to me having a 45-based amp driving the Zu Druids (sans sub) in a 35 x 14 x 12 room is an awfully tall order.
Follow Ups:
Listen, my congratulations goes out to anyone who has had even a remotely positive experience at one of NYC's upscale audio salons. And please forgive my 4:00 a.m. "color." Now, specifically regarding In Living Stereo. First of all, I even wonder if we're talking about the same people. You lament "how little credit we give people who've worked in this industry for decades." Honestly, no one I met there was more than a few decades old!Now, that said, granted, I paid them a couple of visits during the fall (of one year about four years ago, to be exact) -- i.e., a horrible time in NYC high-end retail, since *no one* is buying *anything*. (We're all waiting for holiday bonuses to be announced!) I got a *very* hard sell from these guys, who were clearly eager to unload some gear that they obviously didn't want and that I made perfectly clear that I didn't want either.
Their main listening room was set up such that auditioning the Cain & Cain Nearfield Abbys was impossible. (To their credit, I asked permission to rearrange their room radically, and they agreed -- which dramatically altered the listening experience to the point of their saying to me, "You're hired!") When we started talking about amplification, they insisted on a number of things: (i) the 45 tube is incapable of any legitimate modern audio use based solely on its low power output, (ii) no power amplifier in the sub five-figure range could possibly be considered a serious contender -- "decent output iron costs at least that much," and (iii) they had never heard of any of the amateur builders that are regularly discussed and lauded on this forum (e.g., Wright, Welbourne, Farber, Korneff, et al.) but decided that the gear that they were producing must be meant only for amateurs simply looking to get into the hobby.
There was more, but this strikes me as enough for now. I'd also prefer not to relay anything beyond plain fact (i.e., who said what and when) in this public forum. Suffice it to say that I left In Living Stereo less than impressed -- with them and with me. Ultimately, I was made to feel badly about myself because I didn't have tens of thousands of dollars to spend on a power amplifier. Look, as a New Yorker, I know what their rent must be on their little spot on W. 4th St. in Manhattan. So, I know the kind of profit that they have to generate every month to pay that rent. In fact, they "ran down" the Abbys as being "too cheap." That is, they flat out admitted to me that they weren't interested in carrying them because there simply wasn't enough profit potential in them. Terry Cain had a thing or two to say about your friends at In Living Stereo. And anyone who knew Terry would probably guess (correctly) that his characterization of the place and its people was just as "colorful" as you think mine is. Under the obvious circumstances, I don't feel at all comfortable saying anything more about Terry's business relationship with this particular retailer; but, I *can* tell you that Terry stopped sending people to In Living Stereo to audition the Abbys and started sending them straight to my apartment -- with my "cheap, hobbyist set-up" and all.
I don't know, Michael: it seems to me that your "(R)" may put you in a different league than the rest of us. Lucky you, but perhaps a bit of "(R)"eality needs to sink in before you realize that the average "high-end audio salon client" in New York City is too often treated like "(R)"ubbish. In fact, I really don't think that my characterization "misses the mark" at all. Rather, most often, *I'm* the one that feels like a "mark" in these places....
Jim,When I first went to ILS to hear the Abbys, I wasn't an "R" - I was an "A" and I owned the Fi X (by Don Garber not Farber) and used 45s. So in some ways our experiences are very similar, in other ways not.
Ah, Michael, it's New York City retail. Sometimes there's just no explaining it. As I said, I congratulate you on having a successful "audio salon" experience -- particularly one that I wasn't able to enjoy myself. Maybe those guys were more impressed by Don's Fi X than anything that I was considering at the time. If I recall correctly (although a memory like this would place me squarely back in high school), Don was the "don" of the resurgence of flea-powered audio in the West Village way back when. Perhaps there was an aura of respect surrounding his equipment at ILS. And forgive my typo: I was one key off and ended up recommending the work of an excellent photographer. If you're at all interested, "Portraits of Tibetan Buddhist Masters" makes for excellent reading while listening to trans-Himalayan chant....
During one visit while auditioning the Abbys, two other customers came in. They brought a CD they just cut - one guy was a performer on it (a singer) and the other the engineer. We were A/Bing the Abbys and Reference 3A deCapos using their CD. When we switched to the deCapo’s the engineer said “ahh that’s it” and the singer said “no the other speaker is much better”.New York City – retail.
And I thank you for the book recommendation – I will look into it. (and I wasn’t trying to give you a hard time, just making sure Don got his credit ;-) & yes Don's store - Fi - at 30 Watts Street was a trail-blazer for SETs in the US along with JC Morrison, Nori Komuro and Herb Reichert...
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