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I am running 2 xn 300b Audio Note Conquest mono blocks into Zingali Horn hybrids. I love the sound, but I notice there are a lot of (US) SET guys with either 300b's or 2a3 and running a sub to compliment there (bigger) horn hybrids.My room is 4.5m x 3.8m so not huge. Has anyone had great success integrating a sub? If so which model. I note REL and MJ Acoustics are popular in the UK amongst the 2 channel audio fraternity. Any feedback would be appreciated.
My model choice at the moment would probably be the MJ Acoustics Ref 200. I don't want a boom box or to mask the awesome midrange of the tubes, more a foundation to the image.
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My room is similar to yours at 4m x 4m. I've use the Dali AW8 and they integrated well. After a while though, I moved the AW8 to my HT system instead.
I have a DIY JBL B380 subwoofer.
For the crossover I use the Velodyne SMS-1 with a Hypex UcD400 amplifier.
Works great with my Medallion III/DX4.Yehuda.
A Rel Strata III with Fostex 206 (Decware HDT's)and a Response-Audio-modified ASL Tulip (2A3)sound great. The sub crosses at 65 hz.
I am using a pair of Lowther Fidelios with a 15" horn sub crossed at about 45Hz with a butterworth filter in 3rd order. The sub (ATS by Audio Technik Germany) is connected via speaker cabels to my 2A3 SET.My listening room has only 12mē! But there is absolutely not to much bass in the room. The crucial parameters are phase and crossover frequency. Tiny changes let the sound switch from heaven to hell. But when you have found the right settings you will see what you have missed with that single missing octave.
You will find attached a picture of my setup.
Sorry for the poor english!
Nice set up Fidelio!The big horn sub in a corner placement, and so close to your sweet spot. I wonder if you could potentially drown in bass if the setting were not bang on. Guess that's what you mean?
Is your sub/horn active, bousting the tube amp signal. You need more watts and control for the extreme, low frequncies?
My idea would be different, use a small infinate baffle 10inch sub, but corner placement as well. It should achieve similar results I think. The midrange of tubes with horns is the best. I really couldn't return to traditional (affordable) speakers now.
Dream speakers would be Lowthers or Avante Garde horns and an couple of active subs, all in a dedicated room with acoustic treatments, oh and detached house to get away with more volume!
Thank you!Drowning in bass was never my problem. The "problem" was to get sub and lowthers seamless together due to the very quick responce of the Lowthers.
The sub is active with a 250W Solid State-Module from Thomessen (Protheus 2.5) into a 98dB/W/m paper 15"er. A SET would not get it done.
I was a long time defender of the SET/Horn way but had to find out that there are also sonicaly strong solid staters (a German like me doesnīt get SS easily into his keyboard). My Sonus Faber Musica (also on the picture) is a very good example for that. A realy great sounding and gorgeous looking amp with a very fine volume control in the low range (crucial for HE speakers!). Strongly recommended!
This is pretty funny, because we spent a good part of today listening to a speaker project under development, which uses a SET-powered satellite with a pair of subs. (We're crossing around 100Hz, so each satellite sits on its own sub.) Here's a few pbservations:1) You do have to get it dialed in, it can sound crappy in a myriad of different ways and seem very discouraging until you get close to the sweet spot.
2) Find a way to isolate the sub's vibrations from the sattelite - it really does make a difference.
3) Every time you adjust the sub rolloff frequency, you have to re-check whether you have the right sub phase. You cannot re-check the best phase too often!
4) We were using a sealed box satellite (12dB/octave) with a cheap ... uhhh, sorry, "cost-effective" ... 12dB/octave sub, and you can always identify the sub's sonics. Many experts have advised the 24dB/octave is the minimum sub slope, and I am becoming a believer for sure.
5) You can hear the sub's characteristic sonics pretty easily. In our case, the sub was not an especially rigid box, and you could feel the box vibrations with your hand, as well as hear them. No free lunch I guess - a good, heavy, rigid (expensive!) box is always going to pay sonic dividends.
6) Turning up the sub is no substitute for a proper baffle step correction filter, even if the frequencies are within an octave of each other. Given the large magnitude of room effects in these frequencies, I did not expect this result - but I sure as heck heard it!
In spite of all that, we had no trouble getting the cheapo subs to make a significant improvement over no sub.
Hi Paul,Have you tried using a far lower crossover frequency? In my experience subs have to be kept right away from mids and even mid bass if your main speakers handle that range well. It's surprising how much output you get above 100Hz even if you crossover at 40Hz with a 24db/octave slope. Too much in that region just muddies the hell out of music. But like you say once you get it right there's no going back!
Well, yes, but only with speakers that go lower ;^)> The speakers PJ was talking about are designed to go down to 120Hz and work with an active sub filling below that. My main system goes down to about 50Hz and I use a single sub (higher quality than the ones used with the other system) crossed in at 40Hz. Works very well.
I have a better one than that for you..The martin logan summits are electrostatics and they are 90 or 92db/1watt and they have a built in active powered sub that works from 250cps on down and we powered them with a pair of cary/aes 811 amps with sv572s just fine...The SET amps were also supplying the signal for the bass amp and woofers.
Fast enough to match the speed of my Lowthers, and dissapears, no one notices. It just fills out the bottom, doesnt give you the Home theatet experience
amps. It worked quite well.
The REL Strata is a great sub and I would add the Vandersteen 2Wq since they are at the same price point. With that said, getting a sub set up *properly* in a room, so that the integration is "seemless", can be way harder than speaker set up. JMMV - of course.
I have used a REL III very effectively with several SET amps (45,300B,845) with a variety of monitors. I prefer the speaker level input.
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