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If so, what budget (ideally integrated) amps are available in the $500 - $1000 range (or is this not even possible)?
Follow Ups:
Hello,When considering what a SET amp can drive, keep in mind the law of 8, which is:
- at LEAST 8 ohms impedance, without any dips
- maximum 8 inches driver sizeIf you go below 8 ohms, dynamics and bass will seriously suffer, and when you go above 8 inches, speed and impact will be lost. BTW, 2A3, and lower power amps really, really need single driver speakers, and you will need a long time to figure out the right speaker cable combination. The lower power, the more the weaknesses of your chain will be shown, as the amp does not compensate for the lack in the front end.
I do not say that higher power amps do not sound good, or that multi driver speakers have to be tossed, or burn your 8in + drivers. Not at all. These can sound real good, esp with rock or jazz. However, if you are into reproducing acoustic instruments with tone, and you want to delight in music, then low power SET - rule of 8 to go. If you want to delight in the sonics, and music is secondary as far as it sounds good, then forget single drivers and low power sets.
For me the trick was learning hearing phase. Once you get to ear correct phase, it is very hard to go back to multi driver speakers, even ones that are so-called phase aligned, as you hear right away the component (incorrect phase) which makes the sound not natural, even though the speakers might measure flat from 20Hz to 28kHz. However, not everyone wants natural sound. Most folks want something that sounds different from acoustic instruments. Most want an upgrade - even higher detail, dynamics, whatever steroid or plastic surgery substitute to compensate for lack of hearing or taste. Depends on what you want. Every one of us is different, and you have to go on, and try out different things to find what is the sound you are after. This chase keeps these forum alive, an us happy.
Long live DIY!
Janos
... that all changed the first time I heard my Cornwalls being driven by a Marantz 8B. Heck of a combination. HECK of a combination. Wish I could find one of my own.
Some of the Klipsch Forum crowd claim that the MC-60 is even better.
EICO HF-81 is quite good for Cornies, too. I switched from my SE 2A3 Bottlehead Paramours to a re-hab'bed HF-81 and never went back. Bass was much better (extension and definition) on the latter. Admittedly, the Paramour's an entry-level product :-)
all the best,
mrh
For that kind of money you can look at the kits from Welborne and Bottlehead.Or put one of these together:
Jim,Thanks for the schematics! Very neat! And that amp looks great in real life.. :)
I'm getting into the light bulb voltage drop issue, as the phono I'm fireing up has 10% higher fl voltages than I'd need. wow, you figured out these can be used for ac filtering. Awesome!Janos
Thanks for the link, Jim.Does your DIY 2a3 have that classic 2a3 sound?
I am looking for a synergistic musical combo with Klipsch Cornwalls, not necessarily the most neutral or technically correct (in terms of hi fi sound or measurements).
I built the Clarion that Jim designed and I've been listening to it through Cornwall II's for a month or so now. I haven't heard lots of SET's so I can't really say if it has the "classis 2a3 sound" that you seek but I can certainly say it's a great combo. Jim's Clarion runs very quiet and cool and the CW's have great clarity and precision and are efficient enough to rock pretty good. I don't think Jim's circuit itself is so unusual that it wouldn't have the classis 2a3 sound. If you compare it to the Horus, for example, which was supposed to sound great, you'll see they are quite similar. I tried a couple other speakers with the Clarion and they weren't close to the CW's.
if you stretch your budget to $1500 you can find excellent amps like the Moth s2A3 and Jeff Korneff 45 amps which work beautifully with the Cornwalls.I traded my mint Cornwalls for single driver, horn-loaded Lowthers and sometimes I still miss those Klipschs!
-- josé k.
Is it watts that matters, or some measure of the quality of the transformer used?
Its the power supply that makes the triode amp go go go !!Jeff Medwin
The vast majority of commercial hi-fi speakers are designed for use with low output impedance amplifiers ( <0.1 ohms) to damp the woofers and achieve their target bass tuning. However most feedbackless single-ended tube amps have an output (source) impedance of 2~3 ohms. This will decrease the damping of the woofer and alter the bass tuning.Donald North
Yes it can. I never needed any more than a SET 2A3 to drive my Cornwalls.If I remember correctly, it is also rumored that Paul Klipsch designed the Klipshhorn around a push-pull 2A3 amp so that should give you some indication.
-- josé k.
Hi Jose:How much difference between a 2a3 and a 45 or 6c33 (?) SET amp for the Klipsch Cornwall?
Or should I just be looking for a 2A3 amp (from my limited reading, it seems it's difficult to produce a bad sounding 2A3 and that most of the sound is due to the output tube chosen) or one of these other types of SET amps?
I wouldn't agree with your assumption that most of the sound is due to the output tube, or that any 2A3 would drive your speakers. the type of circuit used will have a big difference and the operating points of the tube and the quality of the output xfmr will all have a major impact on the amount and quality of bass, and the damping of the amp. when all these are optimized, then you're really in business.
Ideally, I'd like to find a budget 2A3 integrated, though I'm starting to suspect they don't exist.May I ask what the known synergistic 2A3 amps / integrated amps for the Klipsch Cornwall are?
I know nothing about these low powered amps, so recommended names will give me some things to research and learn about.
my bottlhead sex amp (6dn7) mates really well with my klipsch forte ii's and i bet their paramour 2a3's would go well with the cornwall's. you could check their forum to see if anyone their has done this.
several have spoken highly of Bottlehead/Klipsch combo, and many others used Pi's with them which are a lot like upgraded/modernized Klipsch's. I use Paramours and drive a 15" Eminence Omega, which is considered to be a difficult load for a tube amp with no problemo. I think the ss psu and the parafeed contribute to it, and the stock use of 4K xfmr gives a little extra damping, although an upgraded xfmr will give mo' better bass.
Is this what you consider the best 2a3 amp for matching with the Klipsch Cornwalls?It seems really nice, but it is apparently no longer produced and is kinda of expensive (seems like $1500) even on the used market.
I'm running the Cornwalls with a DIY 45 amp that puts out a watt and a half or so; plenty of power. It won't blow you out of the room, but who wants it too? Late at night when the house is quiet and I'm getting cleaner power, there is no substitute. I listen strictly to vinyl and only a few pressings I own sound 'quiet.'I've done a head to head shoot out with the 2a3 vs the 45 and the 45 is the clear winner, more detailed tube, sweeter midrange, really better at everything.
The 2a3 is no slouch mind you but the extra watt and a half or so I would gain from using the 2a3 isn't worth losing the 45's near perfection as an audio tube.
One of the key factors in selecting an amp (besides the tube) is the quality of the output transformers and the synergy of the parts used.
Etch:Just curious, what brand(s) of 45s are you using?
Gerry
P.S. I also use a "custom" 45 amp with OB speakers.
Hey Gerry,I built the circuit by Matthew Reidsma called the Experimenter 45, it was featured in SP years ago, very cool amp, funky with the od3's too. Very simple, sounds great! haven't compared it too the JE Labs of the Loftin White so I don't know how it stacks up...
I also built Joseph's OB's with Fostex drivers, very cool just not quite efficient enough due to the small size of the baffle for my 45 amp, worked great with my 5 watt push pull mono blocks.
I got the circuit from Yeo's site, DIY Paradise, very cool guy, fun site too. there is an amzing little pre on there based on a Kondo San circuit I built as well.
Hi Etch:It sounds like you have put together a really nice "bang for the buck" system. However, my question was, what brand(s) of 45s are you using (ex. old stock, TJ/FM/Sophia or EML)? Thanks.
Gerry
Forgot to mention that the 45's themselves are (were) NOS RCA.
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