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Hi
I have spent the last full week working at home, and I have had the Audio Note Conquests SET 300bs pumping solid! Jumping from Rock (Metallica) to Flamenco (Nina Pastori) to Classical (Mozart mainly) I am wordering if any folk out there remember the sound they got from SS amps, and do they ever miss anything from it.I had a big Musical Fidelity A370 MossFet and big Kef 107's plus cube. Thinking back to the sound I lived with for 7 years, it was very different. Not bad in any way, exciting in others, but not quite engaging for long periods. Ok big bass, dynamics, room filling stuff. Imaging was a bit flat, as the mid range units were overshadowed by the 2 10 inch drivers to each channel. And the tweeter was crude compared to my current horn hybrids.
The SET sound I am getting now (the rest of the system was the same, M3 valve pre, except the DAC 1.1 kit came with the Conquests) is much more realistic, detailed and some how more human. It is difficult to describe beyond frequency response and distortion figures. But the sound is not manufactured anymore. With my SS amp and speaker setup I was always aware of the parts making the sound.
I guess that is where valve succeed? They make you enjoy the music again, like your Dad's old Richard's radio set. Who says warm sound isn't good? Maybe cold sound is a thing of modern transistors and digital recording. I do find I prefer master tape then digital decoding (ADD) rather than full digital (DDD). Going to classical concert at the theatre where we live, it sounds just as warm, full sounding as the valves.
If I had mega bucks I would have a Krell/Wilson system in another room, probably to play movies, just for fun! Has anyone got such a double setup and how does it compare?
Maybe SET isn't the last word in sub bass power, but there are other far more rewarding plus points to the sound. I can't go back ever...
Follow Ups:
...George W Bush won the Nobel Prize, was declared a Rhodes Scholar and balanced the federal budget.
"Your liver suffers dearly now for youthful magic moments...so rock on completely with some brand new components"
Kind of says a lot about those two schools. Though of course Yale and Harvard are grossly overrated institutions -- one only needs money not brains to get through -- which Bush illustrates everytime he opens his mouth and is linguistically beaten by the average 9 year old girl from the UK.No kidding I was watching a 9 year old girl being interviewed about her thoughts on Doctor Who and she spoke so well with big words and passion about her subject. Then I switched channels to see George Bush's deer in the headlights nonsensical stuttering "uh uh uh" mumblings.
Then I though how did this nutter get more than 10 votes. Then I remembered "ahh teachers get 30k a year and half leave the field within 5 years and now they hire people with NO teaching qualifications whatsoever."
They'll pay doctors and lawyers millions a year -- silly corupt set-up with the best con game in the world. At least 30 years ago the con had a certain panache -- with Bush the corrupt behind the scenes rulers are now actually laughing at us -- "see the sheep will elect just any Jerry Springer or Deliverence lacky so why go to the effort of hiring quality speach writers and people who can actually string a few sentences together"
I mean I'd rather have the nine year old girl -- she probably knows where the countries are on the map and maybe even some of their leaders -- she could certainly pronounce them better and heck the sweet kid she seemed to be might not even bomb the wrong country just to fill her piggy bank. And as an intelligent Doctor Who Devotee she will probably see the world in a big picture sort of way rather than America and then there are some other countries that we use as slaves to feed my bankroll.
ooops there goes me that nutty centerist again.
Isn't it too funny that Bush has a higher IQ score, and a higher GPA in college than Kerry did? John
The democrats are the same side of the coin with a different media angle. The two party system is idiotic and the cracks have been there for decades but more recently it has been revealed for the pure mudslinging that it is.BTW, IQ scores are educationally weak as tools and University marks, entry and degrees can all be purchased. This is MORE of a truth at IVY League schools.
Kerry is a putz -- I'm amazed the Democrats put this zombie out there.
WOW, You don't have to go "nuculure" on the poor guy!
NT
p
My experience with these two amplifiers which I recently purchased seems to be different to anyone else on internet that had compared the two...
I have decided to keep the Pass F3 amp and sell the Yamamoto A-08S amplifier. Anyone interested (?) - I have an European address and the amp will soon appear on Ebay.
And before you say - ahaa, of course, the fellow does not have enough power to drive the speakers with the less powerfull Yamamoto, let me tell you that I am using the BD design Reference Compact monitors, with AER MD3 speaker units, which have a 108 dBV sensitivity. My Yamoto has more than enough power to drive them (16 ohm speaker units), yet in my system and in for my taste, the F3 amplifier beats the Yamamoto amp in the following (important to me) departments: rhythmic drive, bass definition and coherence of sound. I use Django TVC S&B volume control and the source is either Sony DVD 9000ES player with Allen Wright Modification 5 level, or Kuzma Reference turntable/Moerch DP9/Pass DIY Pearl phono.I tried quite a few output and rectifier tubes in the Yamamoto A-08S amp, including mesh plate RGN1064, 274As(these sounded best to me), the 45 globes, Emission Labs 45 tubes and 2A3C Shuguang tubes (these were to me best sounding output tubes in the amp).
I have a problem to understand how come I am the only one who has compared these two amps of the people that have published their opinion on the internet and have decided in favor of the Pass F3 amp.
I must say that the original Zen Pass DIY amp (which I still have as a back-up amp, playing in my kitchen)beats many a tube SET amplifier, which I have heard, even on not such a very high sensitivity speakers as I have now.
I decided to mention this here, not to criticize tube SET amplifiers, many of them which I like a lot (and the Yamamoto is no exception to this), just to say that there are very good solid state amplifier out there, which don't have to blush when confronted by tubes and may even sound better...
I also had both of these amplifiers at the same time (while evaluating multiple high efficiency speakers)and easily prefered the Yamamoto. I found the F3 to be a wondeful sounding amplifier period. I would have had a difficult time choosing between the F3 and my pair of Wavelength PF Gemini's (EML 45's)and a number of other SET amplifiers on hand. I found the A08-S to be a unique stand out among many years of amplifier ownership and comparisons. Keep in mind that some of my favorite amplifiers are vintage EL84 driven from manufacturers' like Pilot, Eico, etc.
I love the way my simple system sounds, and so do most music lovers who visit. But, not all who's ears I respect care for the sound of my setup. You would probably be in the no like camp. That is why there are great alternative products of all types. Like your wonderful sounding F3. I think that it is outstanding that both the F3 and Yamamoto can offer world class amplification at under 3K.
Thank you for your comments, chopper87 - I read your review on the Yamamoto A-08S amplifier, when you compared it to the F3 amp and the gain clone - when you published it, and even before when you asked people on this board if they were interested in your review of the Yamoto...
Well, in my system the bass and coherence which you describe there for the Yamamoto is not what I get with it in my system and the one which my F3 is capable of...
The Yamamoto has a more diffuse sound in my system, generally speaking, and especially in the bass region (and I don't consider myself particularly a bass freak). And I don't want sound like the Yamamoto is not a good amplifier, but if it does not perform to me as well as the F3, which I owned before the Yamamoto, there is not point in me keeping it.
By F3 serving me better, I don't mean I am completely happy with my system as it is and I belive, I could get even a better amp for my system, be it tube or solid state. I don't think I could built a better solid state amp than the F3, but I have a feeling I can make a better SET amplifier than the Yamamoto, even though the components alone will cost me more than the Yamamoto.
Hook, line and sinker
..
To infinity and beyond!!!
Which is about 250kV. Not many speakers need that kind of voltage.
Mark Kelly
I heard Yamamoto A08 amp twice .Once with C&C Abbys and second time with Zu Druids.I'm pretty sure that in both cases the speakers were responsible that I was under impressed. I don't remember if and what preamp was used but there seems to be consensus that A08s needs one .TVC (yes I also have S&B )is already going out of fashion and it is not easy applicable.TRy active pre. Since you're bi-amping in my opinion you need at least buffer stage . How do you expect crossing plate SS amp and BR box on 200Hz to horn and 45 SET to perform on classical material?? I'm sure it sounds good , everything sounds good but how good ?? How about Yamamoto A09 (300b) on bass and 08 on AER??Regards, L
I don't think your consideration applies in my case...The speakers which I have do cross over at 150Hz, but an (speaker integrated) SS amplifier is used to power the bass unit, being preceded by an RCRCRCR crossover before the solid state bass amp.
The Yamamoto has plenty of gain with the high sensitivity of my speakers and an input impedance of 200Kohm and runns the AER MD3 in the horn and the input of the SS bass amp from it's OPT secondary.
I wonder what makes you think the TVC unit is not able to put properly good signal into the Yamamoto amp?
I am pretty confident in my conclusion and have therefore posted the Yamamoto on ebay.de a few moments ago.
If you're confident and happy with Pass amp, good for you and happy listening. Others opinion doesn't matter much if system performs up to your expectations. I'm running (partially and without much of luck) similar system . Klipshorn bass +Azura (oris like but leCleach flare ) 204Hz horn and now Lowther DX4 (old cone with beauhorn short phase plug) . I plan to eventually get it right and sell it as it's a dead end .
150 Hz is still high.
Fact that TVC technically should and does work fine doesn't mean that it will sound good musically .Personally after 2 years of TVC use I start to appreciate drive , dynamics (and yes colorations of active pre ,even that cheap one like ANOte M1) I don't want to sound like I'm very experienced or so- I'm not ,just most of the AA recommended gear performed poorly when I had the chance to hear it. Best regards, L
If I was listening only to the Yamamoto, I would not be sure, but since the problems I hear dissapear with the use of the Pass that is another matter. The Pass has 10K input impedance and much lower gain.
I love 45 SET but they dont do bass well so when I use 45 SETs I biamp.Of late listening mostly to all dig and class A ss but miss the sound of the 45 so will set up another biamped system.
The Yamamoto A-08S can be fitted with 2a3 tubes with no modification, other than bypassing the voltage dropping resistors, which I use with 45 tubes in the filament supply to reach exactly 2.5VDC supply.And with quality 2A3 tubes, such as the (single plate)2A3C Shuguang type, the bass improves a lot in comparison to the 45 types (including the EML45 tubes), but not to the degree it would become equal to the Pass F3 amplifier. If I was to keep the Yamamoto I would definitely use it with 2A3, rather than 45 output tubes.
Maybe the Yamomoto is just not good enough - try a different SET amp. The ones I have heard do not posess problems in the bass with properly matched speakers. SS has provided a leaner presentation which on short sessions can seem tighter.A lack of dimensionality and full bass can sound faster and tighter until the veil drops and you realize it was a trick of the ear for a moment.
Being high sensitive also does not mean high efficient - I know nothing of your speakers but many higher efficient speakers (including horns) than my 93db non horn standmounts actually sound harder to drive - especially when the speaker adds more crossovers and start getting into 3+ way designs with separate amps driving one thing and another amp driving something else -- to me it creates more problems and more clutter is getting in the path.
Maybe that is why something like the Audio Note Ongaku integrated is in existance because an integrated if you do it right has a whole pile of advantages over separates. 25+ watts of SE also helps rather than 2.5watts.
I have heard SETs that can produce good bass definition[owned near 30] if loudspeakers are very carefully matched, but never out of a 45 SET under 35hz they dont do so well for me.Some of the costly wavac SET I have owned where wonderful with my giant horn systems.2a3 to me does sound better in low bass than 45 but 45 is so right above 40hz. So why not just biamp with a amplifier that does as well in the low frequincys as the 45 SET does for the rest.Or just use a loudspeaker thats limited to 35hz or above not many hi-eff systems that can run on 2 watts are able to get to 35hz.I agree with your clutter comment but my horn systems are 1st order most midranges use no crossover,Bass horn can use passive 1st order or active.So these systems are easy loads for SET.One in link the whole 3 way horn systems 102db can run off 1 SET amp, tweeter uses transformer to pad down levels.Thought about bringing into limited production [pic doesnt show the horn mounts I added later]. But what a pain to build and ship, so I never did....
Your experience in the world of SET is obviously far more extensive than mine which so far has been mainly limited to Audio Note and Cary. But it seems to me there is something missing in the discussions because the Audio Note SETs seem to offer more power in number of watts and just generally listening. Their AN E speaker is not a horn and is around $94db sensitive and will easily reach into the 20hz range 18hz -6db. I just don't see a whole lot more bass being needed and it certainly played loud enough on their Kegon 8 watt power amps with M8 preamp.Their level 5 set-up presented an incredible visceral power and in room instrument pressure that is as good as anything I have heard even from much bigger loudspeakers -- ultimate volume may be sacrificed but that's not the goal here.
I would expect that with much higher efficiency and sensitivity that SETs would have an even easier time -- so something is amiss - because Krell/Levinson/MF/Bryston/YBA/Class/Sim Audio are a bunch of big time SS players and I don't hear any better bass or anything else from this lot that would make me go back to it.
great photos -- room size is of course a factor I am leaving out -- the AN's simply are not built for very large rooms.
nt
You are not alone. I prefer the F-3 too for the reasons you state. I had a Korneff 45 which was very good but the F-3 surpasses it in all areas except human voice. My speakers are PHY-HP SAG 30's in Auris enclosures from Holland.Have a look at this 2A3 preamp. The seller has not seen or heard it and will not give a trial, but he said there were some in the EU. Have you seen it? It looks like the goods as a compliment to the F-3.
Les
I forgot to mention the music I listen to - 85% is classical music (a lot of baroque), 10% jazz and world music, 5% rock. So, it is not that I prefer an SS unit because I prefer rock music (as some might believe SS to be the choice of rock music listeners), but I do believe any music, including the classical music - has to rock!
I am lucky enough to run both a SS system(s) and a 300B SET system --- i like both , but the SET system is best imo. It's hard to beat the timbre/tonality/detail/smoothness/dementionality, etc, of the SET.The high power SS system is more of a party or background music system to me at this time. The SET is for more serious sit down listening.
I also rotate a Red Wine 30 amp with my 300B for the hot summer months --- very good amp, and very close to the SET sound.
If i could only have one system though, it would be the SET system. IMO to get the optimum sound of the SET rig you MUST match it with the proper speakers. They will play lots of speakers, but not to the potential they are capable.
.
I sold my Canary Audio 300B SET amps to pursue a rebuild of some PP amps and I regret it. Why oh why didn't I keep the Canary Audio Monoblocks. They were superb and I have yet to have that seperation of instruments so clearly defined. Dammit get me a a time machine and tell me in the past not to do it!!!!! The best 8wpc I have ever heard.
I think there is plenty of room for all well designed amplifier
types. But, frankly, SET just tends to keep me emotionally tuned-
in to the music like no other topology.I do, however, think it is good to shuttle often between different
types of gear in-order to always compare and contrast. As great as
SET's are, I think the audio world would be less interesting if they
were the only type available. It's a big enough world for many
different approaches. I want to have a chance to play with and listen to all various types --though not necessarily own them personally.-T.M.
if any best of the best ss amp could produce same beauty for violin sound (or any string instruments)in barok music as an ordinary tube set amp,i would go back to ss
845s forever :-)
Click on the link to see my Italian SET, it's 135LB & 40W/ch of musical bliss...Thetubeguy1954
.
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Tin-eared audiofool and obsessed landscape fotografer.
http://community.webshots.com/user/jeffreybehr
It's nice to hear all you guys enjoying your SETS.No problem...however I have been listening to a Gainclone for the past 2 months or so, and the added "ump" along with a wonderful non-fatigue like clarity and fullness across the whole musical range had me send my tubes on their merry way.Even though I have SET friendly speakers (97db,8ohm), this new amp pressurizes my room like no SET ever did, and although I understand the beauty of the SET sound, I prefer this chip amp for overall presentation.I still keep a wonderful SET using the 50 or 300B triode around , however it does not get a lot of air time.
If you are going to consider a Solid State amplifier then this one is the only one I would buy that I have so far heard. SS fans though will point out numerous amps that do things better but usually it is a whole bunch of things except the words music reproduction.The A21a is a bit of a cheater though since it runs Single Ended pure class A and can probably fry an egg on top. So while it has no tubes -- it is a Single Ended.
And it was my favorite sounding SS amplifier before I knew anything about SET and before I had ever heard a tube amp or ever heard of Sugden. So clearly Single Ended was doing something to me even when I was "blind" to the technology.
The A21a is an absolute winner that I could live with long term -- and it is after all the longest selling SS amplifier in history -- started selling in 1968 and the amplifier has went through 2 upgrades -- better heat resistant parts and cosmetics.
And considering some of the prices of SS amplifiers ~$2000.00 for the A21a has to be a steal.
is a really sweet one. It's been around for quite a while, and
seems to have minor cult status of sorts. I'll bet they hold value
quite well relative to other SS units.I'd love to hear one sometime for my own curiousity.
-T.M.
why is that a steal for $2K, when you can buy/build a fabulous SET with 300Bs, 2A3s, or 45's, with great iron, for less than that?
Well for people who do not want to build comparing it to what is on the market then it is a good deal -- it has taken down plenty of very expensive amplifiers for me -- Just being a 300B or a SET does not automatically mean it is better sounding than the A21a.Of course the A21a is a set amp Single ended topology. And it is a steal when one factors in never having to buy often pricey tubes.
I would suggest buying used -- but since 1968 -- it is also striking to see so very very very few ever hit the resale market. I owned the A48b which was more valve sounding and even it did a lot of things so very right. They are my favorite SS company and I hope they don't screw it up.
Because their SET does not sound the same as a few other set amps I have heard. Audio Note has the singular advantage of controlling the entire chain though so you hear what they WANT you to hear and many companies at less than great dealers are putting Cary with B&W or Totem whic is hardly going to help SET sales.I have heard more bass more impact more treble more depth less noise in all Audio Note systems than I have heard from Bryston Monoblock separates and B&W or Martin Logans -- so there is no reason to go back.
I have heard SET with poor;ly matched speakers and yes I would go back. Poorly matched SET amps are IMO a disaster -- luckily though it is usually the ineficient speakers that stink up the joint so dump the speakers before the amp.
And I'm going back to SET any day now! I had SET then along came a baby. Tubes had to go and time for listening were/are slim. I'm quite happy with my SS, which is the Resolution Audio s30 DNM based amp connected directly to the RA Opus 21 cdp. But, it's not SET, and over time I'm figuring out that is where my heart lies.However, for SS I can recommend the DNM-based amps and the RWA Sig 30 if you like SET, but need something else for whatever reason. They are not tubes, but satisfying nonetheless.
Hey Budrew,How does the RA S30 sound compared to some of the tube sounding solid-state amps like the First Watt F3 and Red Wine Audio Sig 30? What specifically don't you like about the s30 that's making you go back to tubes?
Listen to the Sugden. Also Blue Circle has a new line of mini-products: SS power amp and both SS and tube preamps that should sound fantastic to you.
Maybe I was around 19 years old when I picked up a used Heathkit SS receiver. I used it for about 26 years. I used it with lps since that was the medium for most of that time.I always enjoyed music but I would listen to one lp side or maybe two. Then what would happen is that the fatigue of the solid state would kick in but I did not know it. I would just turn the music off unconscious as to the reason why.
Now I have developed a tremendous sensitivity to what is bothersome in SS. I can hear almost immediately in every ss amplifier that I have heard. I hear it in the gainclones, the digital amps, any ss amps at shows. It drives me nuts almost immediately.
Maybe not everyone is easily bothered like that. Some people can wear polyester next to their skin but I cannot. Maybe some of the best ss amps are like that fluffed polyester that feels soft to the touch, feels nice to touch, but it is unlikely to be comfortable next to the skin.
Tubes are not perfect. Sometimes some cd players can be grating too, and some recordings can be. There are alot of factors affecting things. I don't have a handle on all the variables.
But I need an amplifier to be as simple as possible.
I have had Audio Note, Art Audio, Wyetech in my system plus a few others in friends' systems. Push pull and OTL as well. Poor SS and good SS.
Currently I own Audio Note OTO, Wyetch Topaz and Edge NL-10. The cheap OTO does many things well. I don't know if it is the Audio Note thing or the SET thing in this case. Very nice little amp.
The Wyetech Topaz does well in almost every area. So does the Edge. There are more similarities than differences between the two.
Ultimately if your speaker is able to sing with only a few watts the Topaz is hard to beat. The Edge is the only solid state I havenn't found to be totally lifeless and dead.
For me it is either really good SET or really good SS.
The PP thing hasn't floated my boat yet. Save for the DHT pp designs which are very few.
I'll probably keep my Don Allen stuff forever. And also the Larry Moore "10 Squared" as well.I've had the Pass F1 and heard the other First Watt products. The only solid-state amplifier that to me does not sound like solid state is the Symfonia Opus 10. This thing has co-existed with my SETs since I've been into SETs. I don't like most solid-state, and I don't think these high-touted digital/switching amps come even close.
nt email
This is my main amp and I used it on my A7 for the mid horns and use it as the only amp for my Edgarhorns.
Here are my Edgars being driven by the 300B amp.
This is the system I had before the Edgars. They are A7 bottoms driven by my Crown 150D, the Altec 1505 double 288C driver horns driven by my 300B amp and the Beyma CP25 tweeters driven by a Sonic Impact digital amp.
Here are the folded voight pipes my daughter and I built, set up in her dorm driven by the Crown 150D
What I don't have a pic of is my computer set up. I have two Omega 3Rs driven by the Decware ZEN amp. So I guess I go with the flow pretty much and think it is important to match amps and speakers to eachother and the situation. My favorite system was the tri-amped Altecs.
great setups! thnx for sharing the pics. My wife was amazed that your daughter took part in building the speakers. However, she also had a hand in building our pair.... ;)long live DIY,
Janos
Hi Janos, this is the daughter that just changed her major to Construction Management so she can run the family business when I am ready to retire. It is truely a new day. Cheers.
I actually like solid state better for home theatre surround, so I have a kind of hybrid system. SET's for midrange and highs with music only, and I swap to solid state for Home Theatre surround. The punchy, clear characteristics of solid state seem better for dialogue and action, the sound quality while you or distracted by a moving picture is better that way.
Oddly enough, I finally got around to repairing my gain clone (loose wire) and decided to fire it up and play it for a few weeks, replacing my 829B parafeed amp which has been my regular amp for a couple of years now.Actually I have been quite enjoying the extra power and the different perspective.
It's a bit like drinking a different wine. I may love shiraz but I wouldn't want to drink it all the time.
ray
Not me - going back because, at present, it would feel like a step back. However, this is very much dependent on having the right speakers for a SET or else, you'll sooner than later butt heads with the compromises. There are some very good solid-state amps that come very close to SETs, on speakers that are already copasetic with SETs. The Nelson Pass First Watt F3 comes to mind. Then there's the Red Wine Audio Signature 30 which actually works with speakers many SETs won't be ideal for. In which case, on those the Sig 30 will sound better. Or, by extension, any variety of superior transistor amps.But going back to appropriate SET speakers, even the best of SET-like transistor amps, in my book, come close but still fall short on doing certain things that tubes (still?) do better. For my tastes.
So, if that's your preference and you've got the SET amp/speaker thing happy-happy, there may not be anything to unlodge you from that place other than the unavoidable curiosity about the new. Which could be a single-ended push-pull tube amp, i.e. just one pair of output tubes per side. They use different transformers and sound different but, when well done, have their own strengths which you could favor. I personally, so far, prefer SET but I can clearly hear why someone else would go with the push/pull version.
Now, a killer 45 push/pull amp done right - I might change religion for that -:)
Been there, done that. It was AWESOME. There were four VV45's all lined in a row. For a few weeks it was the bees knees. Then I put back in the 45 SET done right and it blew it away, once again the SET sound came through for me. Never went back to the 45 PP. It's a great PP, but it's still a PP. You will get a shallower depth of imaging. You will get less natural timbre. You gain in terms of transients and apparent time domain transparency - better articulation and better bass, but the cost in terms of natural tone to me is not a good one. Or 45 SET distortion is better distortion for me, whichever.I also in the end preferred a 300B SET over the class A 45 PP. For experimentation I went to a 47 DHP PP amp from the 45 and it's also quite good, but it just sits on a shelf collecting dust.
Kurt
I was using a Korneff 45 and 76/6SN7 pre to drive PHY full range drivers. Tried a Pass F-3 for 'grins' and it has stayed. Got a Deja Vu Audio pre from the Terry Cain offerings and the sound is the best I have had at home. If this pre (see link) had 45's instead of 2A3's I'd give it a try.
Srajan, am I mistaken, or did you not prefer the push-pull Canary 300Bs to their single-ended offering recently? "Unconditionally", I believe I recall?I think I need to go back and read that review. But I thought that was the gist. Which was, well, a somewhat large surprise. And to you as well, as you penned, unless I am mistaken.
For me, I think there is no going back. No going back to anything push-pull. OTLs are the ultimate in push-pull and still they do not have the SET realism.
What has come closest to me is not tubes at all but the best-done chip amps (RWA - Tripath) and maybe, perhaps, one day one will have it all. But I don't think so. There is just too much inherent complexity there.
I did - but the Yamamoto is even better (to my ears) and that's a SET again. Which is exactly why I said, a push/pull 45 could be the bee's knees -:)
I think so.Aloha, Srajan,
Poinz
Are you volunteering, Poinz? Coz if you are, come to Cyprus with the machine and sign me up for a review. The only production 45 push/pull I've managed to identify is the DIY HiFi Supply one - and Brian's put me on the books for a review unit when one becomes available before it sells to a paying customer. It seems he's selling them fine so it may be a while. But that's cool, I'm not in a rush. I'm just curious about the inherent promise now that the Canary 300B SE vs. p/p comparo pointed to the very real possibility that a 45 push/pull (I'm a 45 man, not a 300B dude) might just take the cake and go for a loooong walk -:)
I have a variation of the Machine circuit that I was planning on using for 2A3s, it's certainly directly applicable to 45s, but there are some little snags. The 45 has twice the plate resistance and half the transconductance of the 2A3; it's a bit of an excercise to get decent power out of it, PP or SE. It seems everybody is loading the thing to death, which I hate; but maybe it works with this device.Also, we have a common associate, your neighbor, who considers the 45 the Device at the Top, and he has experimented exhaustively. He also showed me his stash of NOS 45s, which would put most tube junkies into cardiac arrest. This is definitely a Situation.
Stay tuned, my man.
Aloha,
Poinz
A Situation. I luv it. Keep talking dirty, Poinz!
Srajan, I would be curious of your view of 845's compared to others. I like them myself but sometimes wonder (like Thorstens description of them as bleached sounding).
Well, I've heard some but I don't consider myself an expert.It seems that the kind of transformers necessary for the very high voltages 845s operate on have their own signature. Of course as a listener, you can't distinguish - you just hear the amp/speaker combo. Unless you build yourself, there's no way to point the finger at the tube or transformer or any other part in the amp.
For my ears, 845s always sounded a bit fuzzy and fluffy and loose, especially compared to 45s which to me sound crystalline, fast and accurate and do energy. You might say that the 845s sound far push-pullier even in a single-ended circuit than 45s - again, to my ears. And I seem to be an SET man in general though I'm always open to be proven wrong in my preferences. Hence my curiosity over a superior 45 push/pull.
Of course 45s don't drive anything except for a few 100dB+ speakers (roughly) whereas 845s open the doors to a wider speaker audience. Given that you can now enjoy single-ended tube sound, there's much to be said for 845s. But in my universe, you get yourself speakers that are copasetic with micro-power SETs first, then explore the 300B, 2A3, 45, 50 and other exotic flavors that are available in that field to find out what you like. That, to me, lands you in the heartland of what that whole thing is about. Going to 845s and 211s and GM70s and 833s is a different game - high-power SETs. Mind you, I didn't say worse or better, just different. For the time being, I'm still in exploratory mode on the low-power thing - for my personal bias. When it comes to reviews, I do anything and everything I can accommodate and have suitable gear for. When it comes to what I'm personally most curious about, it's the low-power hi-eff meeting and how to maximize its magic while minimizing its liabilities. Hence Zu, WLM, Ocellia, HornShoppe and other assignments I'm planning on this year on the speaker front... if I'm "promoting" low-power SETs thru my writing and personal enthusiasm, I better also introduce speakers that work with them or I do a disservice to my readers.
It's all a give and take and making your compromises work for you. That's, in the end, what it comes down to. There'll never be the point where you couldn't visit a buddy and hear his system do something yours can't do as well - or merely differently -:)
Intersting thoughts on the 845 sounding push pull like. Could be the same thing others are hearing when they ssay it sounds more mechanical.
I think this actually adds to it for me. While not having the most creekiest, make your hair stand on end violin sound, it adds from push pulls dynamic capabilities. So it gives up something but gains elsewhere.
Now if I went from my 100db speakers to a 116db Klipsch maybe I would think otherwise.
there is just something about the tone of a 45 that's just right for acoustic instruments. Anyway, if you take one of Lynn Olson's designs and drop in a 45 you should have something close to magical.
...if his Mono 10 (PP 2A3) can be modded to take 45s. Probably it would just involve a change of cathode resistors. Those amps show up used from time to time, if cost is an issue.
If you're a fan of the 2A3, give a listen to his AU-15. George brought by a pair for us to hear in our home, and three months later, we just couldn't get them off our mind. We now have a pair on order, as does a friend. The AU-15 were the first push-pull to really hit me in the gut.
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