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In Reply to: Just Maybe..... posted by Todd Krieger on April 10, 2007 at 11:01:06:
If you think the prices are too much to see a bunch of has-beens bulked up with a dozen session musos to cover their inadequacies while they relive YOUR youth, then it's simple... DON'T BUY A TICKET.
Bands used to tour to promote albums. Hardly anyone used to enjoy night after night of clumping round playing the same set and telling the same stories as introductions.
As soon as the filmed clip took over as the preferred method of plugging your album, tours retreated to the major cities and the days of having one night off every 2 or 3 weeks (as I distinctly half remember) were gone.
In all the time I was touring I only remember one band who could cut it every night drawing the support bands and crew to the stage more night s than not.
Follow Ups:
I don't know where this "reliving your youth" thing came from, I personally have never known anyone who attended a single concert with such consideration in mind.I personally plan on attending the Rush concerts at both the Hollywood Bowl and at Irvine Meadows. In spite of the bashing on this thread, rock bands that can actually produce great music are IMO a dying breed, and I don't want to miss out on something that I may not see much more of for the remainder of my life.
It's more complicated, especially when one doesn't know that 'piracy' is not illegal file-sharing, but involves people reproducing actual CDs, adding artwork to cases, etc., for profit. That's what pirates do. People downloading music files illegally are not 'pirates.'Also, Ticketmaster's role in this is a factor, as is the number of venues controlled by Clear Channel. The idea that 'piracy' has affected artists' guarantees may be partially true, but as a generalization it is a misnomer that doesn't take a myriad of variables into account.
In the case of a band that has sold millions upon millions of albums, the argument that a higher ticket price is the result of copyright infringement, whether in the form of piracy or the far different practice of illegal file-sharing, does not wash.
Is $177 a cheap seat in the venue? I doubt it, but maybe it is. In any case, let's suppose an average of $100 a ticket, and 10,000 seats (though most venues may well be larger). That's a million dollars at the gate. I don't know what the promoter has to pay the venue, which isn't splitting its beer & refreshment sales with anyone (let alone parking), or what they have to pay the band, who isn't splitting their merchandise sales with anyone, either. I can't & won't speculate on the costs of the venue or the band, but combined, it sure seems farfetched that there's anyone in this equation who isn't walking away with money.
If the ticket price is largely as a result of greed on the part of the act, so what? The prices the venue charges for its services are based on what...charity? I have no problem with greed, per se. It's all a matter of what the market will bear. But the idea that the poor lads in the band needing to charge a promoter a number that results in a ticket price like that, because of piracy, illegal file-sharing, or anything of the sort, is beyond ludicrous.
As is the idea that someone feels Rush has to be marketed in a fashion competitive with contemporary pop music, but wonders never do cease.
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From the Lefsetz letter:
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I signed up for the Atlantic Records street team a couple of years ago when the Format were shuffled over from Elektra because that’s what you do when you’re a kid who loves a band. I didn’t realize street teaming was about whoring yourself out to get a low-level job in the industry so that you can whore yourself out more & look like an ass promoting music that someone else thinks is good. It didn’t take long to realize I didn’t want much to do with this method of marketing.
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I never removed myself from the street team because the e-mails had a certain car crash quality. Like the one I just got regarding the promotion of the forthcoming Rush album.
For those of you who aren’t familiar with the band…they’re kind of a big deal!!! Definitely ask your parents! They are going on a 45-city tour and hitting a lot of major markets to help promote their new album "Snakes & Arrows" set for a May 1st release, which is their first studio album of new material in 5 YEARS!!!! So this a huge!
Someone’s either too excited to proofread their e-mail (Vapor Trails was a smash hit, after all…) or they just don’t care. Or they’re trying to type like a 13 year old girl. Or some bizarre combination of the three.
Desperate times call for desperate measures? Or is this the kind of thinking that sank the ship to begin with?
My favorite part…
…this is definitely a great band to have on your resume and under your belt!
Maybe if you want a job for some AAA radio station in Alabama… I, personally, would ask you why in the world you would waste your time doing "lifestyle marketing" for a band like Rush.
- http://lefsetz.com/wordpress/index.php/archives/2007/04/04/e-mail-of-the-day-6/ (Open in New Window)
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Although it's far too long ago to remember all the details, I do remember large venues that insisted on selling all the tickets and then charging up to 30% of the gross for hire, plus security, plus box offive charge, which started to be added to the cover price back about 1980 as I remember.
Before that I would usually only pay 5% commission and try to sell through record shops.
If you start to work out how many people are on a tour, and I know this varies a lot depending on the country as for example, here in OZ bands don't usually tour with a PA as distances are too great it's easier to hire locally whereas in Britain a band takes the PA and lights with them.
But just take 6 people with a PA, 6 with lights, a couple of caterers, say 10 people across 2 bands plus maybe 8 personal roadies for the 2 bands, staff from the promotor to work the show and you quickly come to a figure where you are paying 40 or 50 people to travel around, and this isn't even for HUGE stadium gigs.
Just in terms of hotels and food, let alone the costs of travel itself, that starts to get expensive. 5 gigs a week... now add half to all your costs to cover the off days.
If there is a day off, those expenses still have to be paid.
Just add a "wage" for each person and you start to add up the costs.
Its a big gamble unless you sell well in advance and know your gross for the show.
Yeah, but these are arena gigs, maybe not football stadiums, but hockey arenas that this band plays.I maintain that Clear Channel and/or Ticketmaster play a significant role here. $50 for an average ticket in the venue I could see, but I think $100 is a low estimate. Nevertheless, and I'm no expert on these numbers, but let's say you're doing 20 dates in 50 days. $20 million gross according to my numbers, which was a $100 average based on only a 10,000 seat venue, right? So you have a gross of $20 million. Now let's say 50 people? Let's be generous & pay them EACH, say, $800 a day for 50 days. That's $4 millon, or 20%, off the top of a gross of $20 million.
Mind you, I think I'm being overly generous, here. Let's subtract another 50% for venue, equipment rental, promotion, and related expenses--and, again, we're not taking into consideration concessions, merchandise, or parking. That leaves 30% of $20 million for the band & promoter to split. So no matter what, each band member walks away with a few million dollars or so, even if the fans don't know what the definition of piracy actually is.
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