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208.58.2.83
...its beneficence. So here's a product that can/might affect the gear and/or the listener (a la Belt).How to analyze the mechanism?
How to separate the effects?Considerable listener testimony exists as to its efficacy, but how the heck does it work?
Would understanding it better, shed some light on the Belt phenomena?
clark
Follow Ups:
...is more palatable than makebelieve.
x
You endorse it.cheers,
AJ
The threshold for disproving something is higher than the threshold for saying it, which is a recipe for the accumulation of bullshit - Softky
...I've found that if you guys berate something, it's a pretty good bet that there's a nice benefit to be found with that particular product. It's almost like dowsing. ;-)
I'm not that familiar with witchcraft. Is it dangerous to cross or combine spells/rituals like that? Does it always have a positive psychotic effect? Never negative?cheers,
AJ
BTW, where does Shrek get electricity from - in the forest??
The threshold for disproving something is higher than the threshold for saying it, which is a recipe for the accumulation of bullshit - Softky
This is just a general guideline is all. Not enough hours in the day for EVERYTHING. You've just confirmed via the science of sceptic reading that there's potential in those two things. Thanks. ;-)
Why not a high end power cord on the refrigerator itself, along with brass isolation feet, while freezing the grinded cd with the intelligent chip attached? Shouldn't the cumulative effect be ridiculously stunning improvement, heard by the wife while pulling into the driveway, instead of complete masking by reality tests like ABX, etc?
Or is there a sugar pill glass ceiling or brick wall effect, where no amount of voodoo rituals can break the performance barrier? Can one seance negate the effect of another to the point of cancellation?
Is there any paranormal research in underground audiophile laboratories into this type of counterbalancing phenomenon?cheers,
AJ
The threshold for disproving something is higher than the threshold for saying it, which is a recipe for the accumulation of bullshit - Softky
What is it about tweaks, tweakers, and tweakery that disturbs you so deeply?
Cause it's so darn funny. Why not laugh at it?
Now have you tried replacing your refrigerator power cord and feet with high end products, before freezing the grinded discs, or are you going to be like those ignorant rationalists (aka subjectivists)and insist that you don't have to experience something firsthand to know that it is absurd rubbish?cheers,
AJ
The threshold for disproving something is higher than the threshold for saying it, which is a recipe for the accumulation of bullshit - Softky
...and leave it at that. :-)
What is your obsession with tweaking?? Why don't you just improve the actual parts of the system making the sound??
What makes you think you don't need one to intelligently, and productively, comment upon tweaks?What is your obsession with tweaking??
Great sound. I'll take that from just about any source I can justify. I'm fairly liberal in this area, as you might imagine. ;-)
Can't deny that I'm blessed with great sound though. Hallelujah. :-)
You can read more about "Beltism" at the link below. I'm sure your familiar with the "rag" that publishes this.
d.b.
Yeah I am familiar with it, its the same one that gave you a "rave" review. Tell me Dan, did they have a Clever little clock in the room at the time of your amp test?? Maybe that is why they viewed it so favorably. Maybe the slathered it in electret cream and wrote with a red x pen "Dan's amp good" on a piece of paper taped to it. MAYBE you sent them two photos of yourself and they were in the freezer during the review?Will you be retracting that review from your website now? Oh look its still there:
http://www.redesignsaudio.com/PosFeed.html
LOL!
Your reading comprehension appears to have enough holes to call it swiss cheese. Really; you guys are the laughing stock of the modern world.
d.b.
What's the date got to do with it, DanO? Same publisher, David Robinson and the issue is listed on the website: http://www.positive-feedback.com/pfbackissues/pfbackissues.htmGuess your webbrowser wasn't working so well, eh DanO?
Hell, even got your favorite guy, Clark writing for them then. I guess you weren't as concerned about the CLC as you are now though. LOL!
See link below
nt
s
As far as I know, there is no "Belt phenomena". Care to explain before elevating something imagined to hoax status?
s
nt
:-)
Did you really think anything was left to probe for?
Much akin to the Intelligent Chip/Intelligent Box and Ultra Tweeters. (Not at all akin to Belt products.)From Quantum's web site:
"The QRT treatment apparatus uses electricity (in a proprietary method) to create changes in the conductive properties of electrical materials. These materials, or electrical conductive components, are assembled into oscillator/20MHz transmitter designs. A pre-programmed algorithm of specific frequencies radiates a small electromagnetic field into the environment. This energy wave has a profound effect on the performance of electrical appliances within a given area of its location."
See link below
...so Much to do?
Have you thought about suspenders?
d.b.
you should probably consider one of these...
Kait uses an interesting mouth wash there. Perhaps it is used in the Intelligent Chip manufacturing process?cheers,
AJ
The threshold for disproving something is higher than the threshold for saying it, which is a recipe for the accumulation of bullshit - Softky
"It can't, science will not allow it, and it makes absolutely no sense to me."
I think that by now the inmate community has understood what Beltian devices do!To be sure that these ElectroClear QRT gimmicks do work as advertized, you should probably subject them to the triple-blind test, of which you were claiming to be the inventor. But take care to not confuse with the other triple-blind test, where you make a double-blind test and then loose the data:-)
Klaus
The Electroclear QRT 'technology' is similar to that used by the Tice clock and the Euphonic Technologies products, which, IIRC, was the real originator of the effect. Their products essentially 'dither' the AC line, adding a bit of noise which swamps the low order noise riding on most AC lines.
Stu
IOW it makes the power dirty? What then? Put the power through a line purifier and have the two battle it out? Dither works wonders on a digitally encoded audio signal. The idea that it would be good for a 60 hz analog signal is absurd logic. It's like putting sugar in your gas tank because it tastes good on pasteries. If it adds enough "dither" it will make an audible difference. One I don't expect would be good. But my expectations have been wrong before.
nt
LCR only.
Stu
I'm impressed that you know how to use one! Now; are you telling me that a phase measurement isn't important here? Your lack of comment and misdirection was duly noted. BTW: did you notice the photos of the inside on Audiocircle thread?
d.b.
dissected both the Quantums, Euphonic Technologies, and the Bybee, as I believe that is what you are referring to. The newer purifiers do have a very different construction, BTW. I've 'scoped their outputs too.
I have also read Olsher's review of the Bybee, in which he describes the unit as a new class of electronic devices: neither resistor, capacitor, or inductor. I believe Olsher, as a physicist for the government at Sandia, has security clearance and was privy to facts which may not be generally released, whether you believe that or not. If what Olsher states is true, then we need to examine the purifier in a different manner from that we are normally used to.
In asking my question, I was not attempting to demean your own investigation. It came about from my work in using the purifiers. It was a question aimed sincerely at finding out what the unit was doing. I can hypothesize, but I do have limited instrumentation, and what instrumentation I do have is also limited in sensitivity and range (military surplus for the most part). I did not attempt to conclusively 'prove' that the device was an expensive placebo, I merely attempted to focus attention to an area which has yet to be investigated. As I had stated earlier, it was a hypothesis, but you own response was for me to go back to school....
Stu
Stu - I have also read Olsher's review of the Bybee, in which he describes the unit as a new class of electronic devices: neither resistor, capacitor, or inductor.A new class of electronics? (top secret technology - being sold to the masses eh)
Now wait a second. Capacitance and inductance I'll concede, but resistance? Surely a pile of fresh bu****t offers some measurable resistance?
Put away your electrical technician tools Stu, this is a job for top secret sandia/area 51 physics measurement. I'll probably lose my job in the underground bunker for this, but here is a snapshot of what a real physicist would use to measure this and other such audiophile breakthroughs.cheers,
AJ
The threshold for disproving something is higher than the threshold for saying it, which is a recipe for the accumulation of bullshit - Softky
But you were than happy to "blast me" for not taking a phase measurement on the 0.3 microhenry component of the nicely packaged power resistor.
Get a life;
d.b.
I asked a simple question. initially I did not debunk your measurements (and I still haven't!), I merely suggested another train of thought. You took it as an attack on yourself, which if you read the initial posts attempted to be as neutral as possible. I was and, I clearly stated this, attempting a hypothesis for the effect of the purifier that I experienced.You shot it down, saying essentially that the human mind did not need any experimentation nor measurements to even bother attempting to measure the effect heard. I do not have the equipment to do so, and I believe I stated that. You, as a manufacturer, may conceivably have more test gear or access to such gear than I do(I am admittedly an amateur and no E.E.)and may possibly answer the question. But I guess if John Curl doesn't have the test gear, why should you have the tools?
The quest was for an explanation, and not a personal attack on Bybee, Curl or, for that matter, Banquer. While there are many 'voodoo' tweaks, most in my experience, can be explained through basic science. I've dissected, x-rayed, and disassembled things like the Shun Mook discs, brilliant pebbles, and the Shakti Stones. I believe I know how and why they work, and can replicate their effect much more inexpensively, if not more elegantly.
Knowledge and thorough investigation is the key. Not everything that can influence sound has been discovered or made common knowledge. Furthering knowledge and spreading it advances the entire field. The choice is yours. You can drag things down or you can make a contribution.
I'm not saying that I can contribute, but then if I hear something, I try to understand the causality. I do not use my lack of understanding to debunk the perceived effect,
Stu
Just curious what exactly it is that you found, how you found it, and how it can be replicated?
The Shakti, Shun Mook. and Brilliant Pebbles work on the piezo effect which many crystals possess. Quartz and tourmaline's tend to be the more highly piezo electric crystals (as evidenced by the crystal oscillators in your cell phone and other digital appliances). Of the quartz family (citrine, amethyst, rose quartz, etc.), topaz seems to be the most electrically active.Fortunately, quartz is also the most common mineral on the Earth's surface. The Shakti is the most scientific about the use of quartz and the bricks and such, and actually form waveguides to order to focus the EMI/RFI fields upon the crystals.
You can use simple quartz crystals and duplicate much of the effect these devices have. I use the tumbled pieces found in many 'New Age' stores. The idea here is that the quartz will absorb some EMI/RFI and translate this absorption into mechanical motion, abit on a very small scale. You can buy a crystal formation and simply break it up with a hammer, too. Depending where you live, you can find it in your back yard at times.
I asked a PHD about this and when he witnessed the effect he was astonished that human perception could hear the effect. The percentage change he told me would probably involve counting the zeroes after the decimal point.
The key here is realizing that the crystals will work best if they can move, no matter how subtly, and then to place them in areas with strong EMI/RFI fields. Motors are a good place to start: TT motors, CD spin motors all benefit greatly. Remember that different sizes will affect different frequencies.
If you are worried abut them falling or moving out of place, use a piece of Blue tack or its equivalent, a soft putty which should not hinder movement much. I placed some in a contact lens holder and filled it with a bit of oil and that increased the effect, at least when properly placed.Stu
"I asked a PHD about this and when he witnessed the effect he was astonished that human perception could hear the effect. The percentage change he told me would probably involve counting the zeroes after the decimal point."Typical PhD. I think that is called Being in Denial. :-)
~ GK
Stu said this was all on "a very small scale". How does one define a very small scale? Before the decimal point, or after???
I think Stu and the PhD are both more than a little confused about the subject. But, hey, that's just me. :-)
So his belief/explanation doesn't jive with yours? It seemed to - absorption capabilities of minerals...
I was basically objecting to the conjecture that the effects (of crystals on sound) are small. But also worth noting, since you ask, that in most applications Brilliant Pebbles have precious little to do with EMI/RFI absorption. Does that help answer the question?
" I've dissected, x-rayed, and disassembled things like the Shun Mook discs, brilliant pebbles, and the Shakti Stones. I believe I know how and why they work, and can replicate their effect much more inexpensively, if not more elegantly."Yeah; you can photographs of your self in the freezer, that'll work and cheaply too.
d.b.
Belts are used to hold up your pants.
d.b.
nt = not thinking
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Richard BassNut Greene
Subjective Audiophile 2007
nt
--
The threshold for disproving something is higher than the threshold for saying it, which is a recipe for the accumulation of bullshit - Softky
Hey! The belt that holds up my pants is real Bub! :)
d.b.
Hey Dan
Trouble is Posey is asking for impericial proof of that fact.
cart horse and wheels come to mind.
Well let's see; when I put on my pants in the morning I always make sure my belt is buckled. When I take a dump during the day I loosen my belt and then refasten it when I am done. Just before I go to bed I loosen my belt and take off my pants.
So yeah; I use a belt. No pheneomena here, it just holds up my pants.
d.b.
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