Propeller Head Plaza

• Re: I am at once agog, baffled, befuddled, surprised, and utterly amazed !!! - thetubeguy1954 09:37:20 04/20/07 (7)
  In Reply to: I am at once agog, baffled, befuddled, surprised, and utterly amazed !!! posted by E-Stat on April 19, 2007 at 15:44:23:

  Hi E-Stat,

  I too am shocked by such a straight forward answer. Now I can say that by Pat D's definition of a suitable amplifier, i.e. ...a suitable amp is one which can drive the speakers. My Mastersound is a suitable amp, because it drives my Aliantes just fine! :^ D

  I knew Pat D would come around in time...

  Thetubeguy1954
  
  

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  • Re: I am at once agog, baffled, befuddled, surprised, and utterly amazed !!! - Pat D 10:22:39 04/20/07 (6)
    In Reply to: Re: I am at once agog, baffled, befuddled, surprised, and utterly amazed !!! posted by thetubeguy1954 on April 20, 2007 at 09:37:20:

    TG54
    "Now I can say that by Pat D's definition of a suitable amplifier, i.e. ...a suitable amp is one which can drive the speakers."

    You'd be lying if you did. Your remark totally ignores the context.

    TG54
    "My Mastersound is a suitable amp, because it drives my Aliantes just fine!"

    But is it well-designed? And is it accurate?
    
    ____________________________________________________
    "Opposition brings concord. Out of discord comes the fairest harmony."
    ------Heraclitus of Ephesis (fl. 504-500 BC), trans. Wheelwright.
    
    

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    • Dang! - kerr 11:43:58 04/20/07 (0)
      In Reply to: Re: I am at once agog, baffled, befuddled, surprised, and utterly amazed !!! posted by Pat D on April 20, 2007 at 10:22:39:

      First, I only had to be concerned about "well designed". Now I gotta worry about "suitable" and "accurate", too???? :)
      
      

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    • Teflon Pat D Is Back Tracking From What He's Said Yet Once Again! - thetubeguy1954 11:34:39 04/20/07 (4)
      In Reply to: Re: I am at once agog, baffled, befuddled, surprised, and utterly amazed !!! posted by Pat D on April 20, 2007 at 10:22:39:

      You guys have got to love this one! E-Stat said to Pat D "I won't bother asking what a "suitable amp" is. ;)" In this post:

      http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/prophead/messages/32064.html

      Pat D answered by stating: Tube amplifiers may indeed change the frequency response significantly. But no, ordinarily, one does not include amplifiers under the signal processing category. Signal processors usually are considered to be such things as tone controls, equalizers, digital time and amplitude processors, and surround sound processors. In this context, a suitable amp is one which can drive the speakers. As seen in this post here:

      http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/prophead/messages/32065.html

      So I responded by stating: I too am shocked by such a straight forward answer. Now I can say that by Pat D's definition of a suitable amplifier, i.e. ...a suitable amp is one which can drive the speakers. My Mastersound is a suitable amp, because it drives my Aliantes just fine! :^D I knew Pat D would come around in time... Which can be seen in this post:

      http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/prophead/messages/32085.html

      How did Pat D respond to that? Well first by claiming I'd be lying if I did state that because my remark totally ignores the context. Then knowing full well he put his foot in his mouth for the umpteenth time Pat D goes further and asks me about the Mastersound 1) But is it well-designed? And 2) Is it accurate? As seen here:

      http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/prophead/messages/32089.html

      I invite everyone to read the entire posts I've provided links to, to see if anyone but this lunatic fringe objectivist believes I'm quoting out of context. As far as I can see and my co-worker who read the post at my request, it is quite certainly in context of what was said.

      Now for Pat D if you'll give me a straight forward answer as to what constitutes a "well-designed" amp and what an accurate amp is to you I'll be able to answer those questions, but as it stands you don't provide sufficient enough data for me to do so.

      Nice to see you ducking and dodging like the Pat D we all know you are. I just knew your "supposedly" straight forward response had all sorts of conditions and catches attached to it. But that's just typical Pat D, so I'm not surprised.

      Thetubeguy1954

      
      
      

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      • The answers are pretty simple: why do you avoid them? - Pat D 15:01:17 04/20/07 (3)
        In Reply to: Teflon Pat D Is Back Tracking From What He's Said Yet Once Again! posted by thetubeguy1954 on April 20, 2007 at 11:34:39:

        Your amp will drive speaker--won't clip severely. mess up the music. It affects the sound less than the recordings and room acoustics and in all probability, less than the speakers do.

        According to the list of criteria you have cribbed from Peter Aczel of The Audio Critic, your amp probably is not particularly accurate nor well-designed. It probably doesn't do have some of the things he wants in an amp (i.e., low output impedance, flat FR into most speaker loads, ability to handle low impedance loads).

        Since your amp seems to work well in your system, you no doubt would regard your system as accurate and the ampwell-designed. (It evidently has noise low enough noise and distortion and is reliable, etc. You'll have to make up your own criteria.)

        As I and others have pointed out, "well-designed" doesn't mean exactly the same in every context. The same is true of other words. You appear to think otherwise. You seem to think that when people speak of a well-designed amplifier, they should all have the same thing in mind. You seem to think there is a right set of criteria for that and that all others are wrong.

        Well-designed----for what?

        Accurate----compared to what standard?
        ____________________________________________________
        "Opposition brings concord. Out of discord comes the fairest harmony."
        ------Heraclitus of Ephesis (fl. 504-500 BC), trans. Wheelwright.
        
        

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        • Pat D The Teflon King Continues To Avoid Answering 2 Simple Questions... - thetubeguy1954 17:37:46 04/20/07 (2)
          In Reply to: The answers are pretty simple: why do you avoid them? posted by Pat D on April 20, 2007 at 15:01:17:

          Pat D,

          You say a lot but directly avoid the 2 questions I specifically asked you, i.e what does well designed mean to YOU (and for added clarification) in the context of this discussion and what is accurate to YOU in the context of this discussion.

          Those are 2 very simple and straight forward question, if you really make up your own mind as you claim and which I don't believe, they should be very simple questions to answer...

          I'm amazed that you are bringing up Aczel once again when just a couple of days ago you were proclaiming those were his opinions not yours! Yet here you are stating: According to the list of criteria you have cribbed from Peter Aczel of The Audio Critic, your amp probably is not particularly accurate nor well-designed.

          Pat stop worrying about what you think I believe, stop worrying about how my amps fits into Aczel's misguided opinion and answer the two questions I asked you or at least admit you cannot!

          Thetubeguy1954
          
          

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          • Which questions am I supposed to take from your rambling posts? - Pat D 20:04:14 04/20/07 (1)
            In Reply to: Pat D The Teflon King Continues To Avoid Answering 2 Simple Questions... posted by thetubeguy1954 on April 20, 2007 at 17:37:46:

            Changing the question does not constitute clarification.

            BTW, it is you who have whined about Peter Aczel's list of characteristics for an accurate, well-designed amp. His definition obviously bothers you a great deal as you have brought it up several times. However, I have in the past pointed out that you have utterly failed to prove him wrong. But I have never said I agree with Peter Aczel on this, and you incorrectly try to foist his opinions on to me.

            Anyway, I have pointed out that one definition of amplifier accuracy is that it amplifies the signal without otherwise adding or detracting from it in an audibly significant way.

            You have proposed that accurate equipment should sound like the real thing. Unfortunately, you verbally attribute this to your amplifier while you really mean it is the system which should do this. Your silly way of stating it needs correction.

            Both (as corrected) seem to me to be sensible definitions (as corrected), and I may add, they are not in conflict with each other. I see no sense in calling them 'mine' as I did not invent them.

            
            
            ____________________________________________________
            "Opposition brings concord. Out of discord comes the fairest harmony."
            ------Heraclitus of Ephesis (fl. 504-500 BC), trans. Wheelwright.
            
            

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            • More Teflon Responses From Slippery Pat D - thetubeguy1954 08:57:42 04/23/07 (0)
              In Reply to: Which questions am I supposed to take from your rambling posts? posted by Pat D on April 20, 2007 at 20:04:14:

              Pat D,

              Why can't you act like an intelligent adult at least once. You started this after I said: "My Mastersound is a suitable amp, because it drives my Aliantes just fine!" By asking me 1) But is it well-designed? And 2) is it accurate? As is seen in this post:

              http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/prophead/messages/32089.html

              I then asked you to define what "well-designed" and "accurate" is to you, BEFORE I answered your questions. Then knowing you to be the slippery snake you are and how you almost always claim everythings "out of context" I decided to clarify or amplify my original question with "In the conext of this thread."

              Now if you're too damn stupid to follow that or to understand that everyone knows without saying, NO audio component can make a sound unless it's part of a system, yet each part of that system has it's own unique voice or sound, as witnessed, by changing preamps, amps, wires, CD players etc., then I'm sorry I don't know how to dumb down the conversation so I can talk with someone who cannot understand that simple concept.

              But I forgot I just read another of your posts and now realize I want an audio system that sounds as close to live unamplified music as I can achieve and you prefer to follow other audio goals and preferences than that. So we really have nothing to say to each other as our goals are clearly different...

              http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/prophead/messages/32230.html

              Bye Bye, Thetubeguy1954
              
              

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