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In Reply to: You're right. Qualified or not, he experiement is flawed. posted by Presto on April 12, 2007 at 13:13:52:
...IF "subjective and unsubstantiable (sic) audio claim"s are cool as long as they're not posted on PHP and "Then people can decide for themselves whether or not to experiment further, "just believe" or just move on."
Follow Ups:
Propeller Head Plaza - Technical and scientific discussion of amps, cables and other topics.Tech Square- Technical and speculative discussion of amps, cables and other topics.
These forum "guidelines" whether just suggestions or otherwise are easy enough understand.
Does it make sense to go into cable asylum and bewail lamp cord and call people idiots? No. Does is make sense to go into "Tubes" and bewail SS amps and call people idiots? No. Does it make sense to go into Vinyl Asylum and bewail DVD-A and CD and call people idiots? No.
So why is it okay for subjectivists to come into PHP and offer results of COMPARISONS (not experiments) and expect everyone to accept their claims?
I am not saying that these people should be banished from AA, but I do think there are more appropriate places for these topics. Any time someone takes the "I heard it, therefore it is - and THAT is all the proof you're going to GET from me" stance, well there is nowhere to go but down from there.
The value of subjective analysis and sighted comparisons is not in question here. What is in question is the appropriate venue in which to discuss these things without causing all of these needless subjectivist/objectivist wars.
it's just sad that even if there was an appropriate place to discuss frezing your kit, the same people who are posting about that now would STILL post about it here. It isn't about "advancing audio science" at all: it's about being a successful PITA.
If PHP hadn't become JREF Forums West after the GSIC threads were pushed over here, this place, in all probability, would be as dead as it always WAS prior to the Intelligent Chip putting it on the map.It is sad that more of Audio Asylum, PHP included, isn't devoted to "advancing audio science".
but I have learned much from discussions generated by tomservo, cheap-Jack, John Curl, and many others, including yourself. At this point, nearly this entire page is nothing more than a spitting match, with one participant sending larger gobs about than others. What have I learned on this page? Well, for one, I learn that May Belt herself uses Ed Meitner's experiments with actual cryogenics as a support for her own use of a "domestic deep freezer," while Posy Rorer insists all around are ignorant because we are all talking cryo and he's talking domestic freezing. This foolishness I'm not interested in. I've also learned through repeated observation that a good percentage of internet-posting audiophiles need at the least a course in good manners, and at the other limit a few strong sessions of anger management.I think this is very sad. I have always appreciated that you at least attempted to use a repeatable scientifically-based experiment (depite JREF!) to prove that you could hear the chip in action (or not!). This has nothing to do with whether or not I think it works as described: I don't, but the discussion is interesting. What we have going on here now is an arrogance-driven creative writing class. We might as well be writing about crop circles.
...that there are a lot of dismissive attitudes exhibited at the Asylums, PHP in particular. A lot COULD be learned given the proper environment. I wish more people, those like yourself, would have greater interest in that prospect. Many times I think people are simply afraid of becoming indoctrinated. Audiophilia is a fascinating pastime, more so than many people have come to terms with IME.
particularly about being afraid of indoctrination. A stumbling block to being able to see around that problem is that very few understand that "indoctrination" is a fundamental component of any zealot's position. That holds as true for those of the Aczel camp of objectivism as it does for the Beltian subjectivists. Extremism in any pursuit is a problem.The lack of civility across almost all the Fora (with the shining exception of Vinyl, after their tumultuous winter of homophobia and teresa-bashing), is causing me to seriously question muy participation in the hobby in any way other than just listening to music on my rig, jus' me and the wifey. Thart part of the hobby makes me happy. The bile flying around between audiophiles just makes me sad.
...and the same to you and yours.I'm not sure how it relates to extremism, but enthusiasm is just all right by me. I think asm's might simply be better than ism's. Just a hunch at this time however. ;-)
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