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In Reply to: Who is fooling whom ? Stick to the topic, pls. posted by cheap-Jack on April 2, 2007 at 09:18:39:
I found his post quite reasonable compared to most of what is posted in this forum. Many others have tried balanced power transformers without the drawbacks you claim. As you know I use one. A 1kva transformer is way too small however.If you feel THHN with virgin copper is terrible what code approved wire do you like? And please no silver in teflon sleeve stuff or audiophile only approved wire!
Follow Ups:
Hi.First off, do you know why dedicated powerlines with ISOLATED saftely ground are recommanded, which have decades long history of application in computer & digital electronic industries?
FYI, it provides a significant amount of wiring impedance btween the critical circuit (here our audio powerline) & other local powerlines to stop disturbances from other loads, digital or anologue, entering the critical circuit.
I verified this unnoticed EMI/RFI noises disturbances by measuring
them with a wideband powerline & EMI noise analyser on a powerline strip with a CD player hooked up to it. The noise level jumped up whenever the CD player was swithced ON !!!!!! How about those so many computers being used in the same location, residence or busiess alike?This hinted me to have get dedicated powerlines direct from my house fuse panel exclusively for my analogue audio equipment SEPARATED from digital equipment.
I need less than 300VA with one of my power amps playing. So how many KVA powerline transformer should I use, please tell me?
I never question ahout the theoretical function of a balanced powerline transformer, but I only concern if it does impair the sound or not. I had bad experience with mine.
Let's get back to the topic. How you can be so sure ALL building wires use "virgin" copper. I already asked one of the largest cable mills with in-plant copper smetlters in USA, I was told for building wires they build mostly used recyled copper (re-smelted in-plant). They supply tons & tons of building wires to the leading hardware stores all over USA & Canada.
Have you ever compared the sonics of powerline wires. I did. Being
installed OUTSIDE of the house wall structure, no building wires in metal conduits are needed. Now we can have choice to use the best sounding power cables, with oxygen free high conductivity copper with UL/CSA rating.FYI, I only use 4N silver & silver plated OFHC conductors in teflons for signal paths in my amps although my power cords are all 4N silvers.
c-J
PS: how are you so sure balanced transformer are really so practically balanced?
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If so I think that is uncalled for an undeserved. I have always done my best to give you carefully thought out and well worded responses even when you were way out in left field on a subject. Of course I also acknowledge that you typically don't think you are "out in left field".You can spec virgin copper. Many places do. Last time I knew government did in some areas...and also required a certain % of recycled in other areas. But wire is your profession, not mine so you should know better. Now on to the questions at hand.
You ask about isolated grounds and act as if I know nothing about them yet you know I am a building engineer at a hospital so you "know" I know about them. Fact is, the original post was not about isolated grounds but about separately derived grounds, ones not referenced to the power panel. That, my friend, is highly illegal in the states so I simply can't support it in an open forum. With regards to digital and all that, if you saw my response in another forum (as well as in other posts) you know I advocate the use of individual isolation transformers for each and every digital gear or item that has a switching power supply. Only analog and linear power supplies go on the main balanced power transformer. I run 240VAC on the primary too. And I put an EMI/RF filter in front of it and then measure to insure the transformer windings are balanced.
When you wire a transformer for balanced power it is de-rated by 50%. I advise at least twice the VA of the peak load. So find the actual peak load of your 300VA load and multiply by four (if class AB, 300VA is an average and not a peak). I use a 3kVA myself for a 3 watt tube amp, preamp, and turntable.
Again you are being stubborn Jack. I don't dispute your findings with transformers and agree with you that 240VAC from the wall is best and lowest impedance. But not everyone has that option or is comfortable with it (for reasons beyond my understanding). But when so many report favorable results using a transformer for power conditioning I think a smart man would revisit the subject and try and discover why he had such dismal results. But instead you choose to condemn anyone who would advocate their use. Why is that sir?
Hi.I agree randomly planting grounding rods is a very dangerous game let lone being illegal. That's why I stay away from commenting until I get some more technical ground on it.
From us being consumers, no way we can "spec virgin copper" on purchasing small quantities from any hardware store. Take it (recyled
copper) or leave it. Hence my advice to stay away from building wires given other choices.I know too well where you come from. Professionally you use tons of isolation irons for your medical gears. But from a consumer's viewpoint, balance transformers is costly & not easy to make it right. Besides, it impaired sound as in my situation, which would happen to anybody else' home provided of course, your ears & gears can tell the difference. Unfortunately, I can detect the sonic differene.
Like it or not, I only use powerline transformers with no other options given their techically downsides. As I mentioned parasitic capacitances between the primary & secondary windings are already some huge headaches to resolve.
You may call me being "stubborn". My bottom line is, like those with keen ears, no brooks on sound quality despite whatever favourite techical reports published. We got to watch out the real thing or smoke mirrors with commercial interests behind them.
I am not sure why you suggusted 4 times the max load of my 300VA situation. I will dig more into your claim. You are lucky to have a overized 3KVA sucker to handle your 3W amp. Who else could have such previlege without wracking the wallet & the backbones (to carry it in).
c-J
Hi.He responded to it. It was simply a response to Cliff's post calling me "wiser ass".
Why should I call you bad name?? Have we known not long enough?
c-J
I too have used an isolation transformer to create a dedicated power line for my audio equipment only.I found it extremely effective and a 1KVA 230v:230V with interwinding screen powers the lot without fuss.
The only digital item I have is a CD player and that is connected via a fairly classic LCL power filter.
Hi.I am just speaking on my hands-on experience.
The isolation transformer I used was 1KVA 230V:230V, with I/P winding tapping with large ANALOLGUE meter monitering to maitain the O/P constant by manual adjusting. No fuse either. Only 120lb weight.
Anyway, maybe my ears are too rusted or my equipment too revealing, it just did not sound right until it was removed from the scene.
Why not try what I did? Try to bypass it completely to see if the music sound better or worse?
Listening is believing.
c-J
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The threshold for disproving something is higher than the threshold for saying it, which is a recipe for the accumulation of bullshit - Softky
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The threshold for disproving something is higher than the threshold for saying it, which is a recipe for the accumulation of bullshit - Softky
"Why not try what I did? Try to bypass it completely to see if the music sound better or worse?"I installed mine because I was having trouble with electrical noise! Why take it out again?
no!
... used in the sense of "Don't be a silly ..."If we want to get anatomical and ruder we stick an R in it ...
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