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In Reply to: Re: A very simple question posted by Jim Austin on March 13, 2007 at 06:05:46:
Obviously, Jim, there are things which we perceive - where we have guessed wrong. Such as touching something in the dark, thinking we identified it but found out we were wrong. Or tasting something without looking first, thinking we had identified it correctly but found out we were wrong !!If you have read through what I had written and still do not have an understanding, then I am at a loss how to explain it differently.
>>> "You don't have to know that there's a piece of coloured foil on your wall etc .... in order for these 'tweaks' to improve the sound." <<< - your quote Jim.
No, Jim, you don't have to know that there's a piece of foil on your wall. But you go on to suggest that we believe that these 'bits of stuff work directly on our brains'. There is something you are not fully understanding and I do not know how best to describe it if you have not already understood. You have to 'throw an intellectual switch' and look at the whole thing differently and from a different angle.
It is not that the Foils etc are 'improving' the sound. You cannot add information that is not already there. What our treatments do, in the environment, is reduce an ALREADY hostile situation. The modern environment is a MESS - a mess for human beings !! The mess is already there, causing problems for us because we are not able to resolve the environment as a friendly place ! We are therefore under constant tension - but are not realising it - that is until we do something which gives us the reassuring signals which we are searching for - which we have been programmed by millions of years of evolution to look for. The more safe we feel, the more we can relax, the less stress we are under, the better we can resolve the information which is already there. So, our treatments do not IMPROVE the sound, they REDUCE an already adverse effect. But, the result is the same. The sound is perceived as having improved. The information giving greater height, the greater width, the greater depth, the better separation of the instruments etc has been there, in the room, all the time !!!
We are the result of millions of years of survival programming - to read/sense our environment every second of every minute of every hour of every day of our lives - searching for signs of danger/predator/intruder and, if this cannot be resolved correctly, then we stay under tension (on the alert) prepared for fight, flight or freeze !! So, in the modern environment, we are under persistent tension.
But, at the same time as being programmed to read/sense our environment for signs of danger, we are also programmed to read/sense our environment for signs of reassurance, signs telling us "Its, OK, you can relax, the danger has gone away."
Over 20 years ago, Peter, by chance, did something which completely ruined his sound. The story is well known and would take too long to repeat it yet again here. It was only months later that, from another field of science, the field of biology, that he discovered that the cause of the ruined sound was because he had used what is known in plant life as a 'stress chemical' and then, it suddenly dawned on him that it had been us (human beings) who had reacted to that 'stress' chemical and gone under tension - causing the (musical) information being processed by our hearing mechanism to be adversely affected. Recognise the description of "harsh, aggressive, shouty" sound , anyone ? Recognise doing something (some tweak or other) and hearing the sound be so much better ? Ring any bells ?
Regards,
May Belt.
Follow Ups:
"We are the result of millions of years of survival programming - to read/sense our environment every second of every minute of every hour of every day of our lives - searching for signs of danger/predator/intruder and, if this cannot be resolved correctly, then we stay under tension (on the alert) prepared for fight, flight or freeze !! So, in the modern environment, we are under persistent tension."jj often mention overdetection of differences. Overdetection of differences would appear to be helpful for survival. It can be expensive in choosing audio equipment and tweaks, though.
There is an amusing discussion of Burdan's donkey in J. Henri Fabre's chapter on caterpillars.
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"Opposition brings concord. Out of discord comes the fairest harmony."
------Heraclitus of Ephesis (fl. 504-500 BC), trans. Wheelwright.
I would think this "danger/predator/intruder" response could be likened to fight or flight. If that's the case then it seems our sympathetic nervous system prepares us by heightening all of our senses, including hearing. So when we relax after the danger has passed our senses would be lessened. Isn't this exactly opposite of what you are saying?
...that our senses are under tension due to sub-optimum conditions within our environment. Once these conditions have been adequately countered The more safe we feel, the more we can relax, the less stress we are under, the better we can resolve the information which is already there.IOW, our ears become more golden. (just messing with you May ;-), like you apparently, I don't care for, or buy into, the golden ears argument)
I don't buy it. I'm not saying the Belt's products don't work (I haven't tried them), just their theory for why they work doesn't make sense to me. Have there been tests to show we hear more information when we are relaxed? Again, I would think during this fight or flight scenario (which May did put forth) one would have the most acute hearing. My guess is the Belts might really be on to something, but science can't explain it yet.
As a Creationist I find the concept of evolution to be absurd. As an audiophile I find I will take improvement wherever it may be found. I've heard a few P.W.B. items that were profound in their effect. I'm blessed by May Belt and P.W.B. in more ways than one — I think I may be in love with her mind. ;-)
and the implications are interesting. Let's reverse things. It suggests that you would be able to deduce the presence (or absence) of colored foils by how good the music sounds to you.Let me ask a followup question. Recent science has shown that subliminal effects are real. Your brain can be affected by things you are not conscious of. Your brain knows it there, but "you" don't. But there has to be some way that these things can affect the brain--to convince it that it's environment is less hostile than it was--and it seems to me that in what you are describing that's not the case. How does our brain know it's there? Is it via one of the established senses, or something else?
> > > "We cannot respond to threats we are not aware of." < <Can you turn it on it's head Jim ? Can you look at it differently ?
Yes, there is that way of looking at it and as you have suggested, we cannot respond to threats we are not aware of. What I have just proposed in a reply to another of your postings is that we (from the earliest of creatures) are programmed to make sense of our environment and, if we CANNOT, because of a multitude of mixed signals or because of a multitude of ill defined signals causing maximum confusion, then Nature dictates that we (from the earliest of creatures onwards) remain under tension !!! So, it may not be a case of merely responding to a 'danger' signal, it may be a case of not being allowed (by Nature) to relax because to relax without the environment being 'proven' to be safe, would leave any creature in danger !!! The most important thing overriding everything else is for us, (or any creature) to survive in order to replicate.
Recall how anxious one can get if you have lost something, if you have mislaid something. Completely irrational anxiety. Your life is not in any danger but something !!! is unresolved. Similarly, if you cannot remember where you parked the car. Your life is not in any danger and yet the anxiety until you find the car is irrational ! These are, in my opinion, just simple examples of Nature dictating that you have to make sense of your environment before it will allow you to relax.
> > > "How does our brain know it's there? Is it via one of the established senses, or something else?" < < <
I think it has to be something else, some primitive sense, because it has to have been successful long before the senses (hearing, sight, smell, touch, taste) as we know them ever evolved. The earliest of creatures, somehow or other, had to be able to sense their environment - in order to survive, in order to replicate - and obviously they were successful, or we would not be here now !!! So, that asks the million dollar question. How were those creatures (are we) sensing certain things ?
Regards,
May Belt.
I thought I would add that I completely accept the notion that our psychological state affects how we perceive music. And I accept that we are not always consciously aware of things that affect our psychological state. But there must be SOME mechanism for manipulating that psychological state. We cannot respond to threats we are not aware of.
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