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In Reply to: Me too:( posted by Russ57 on February 1, 2007 at 11:40:27:
R57 - Now if you and tubeguy were there I'd wager there would be a lot of action and maybe some good hits!Nah. I'm a lover, not a fighter. TG54 OTOH, describes himself as some sort of tied up raging pitbull. Something quite difficult to reconcile, with him also being a missionary.
I do enjoy music, both live and reproduced. Can't see it quite as the life and death struggle or good vs evil as TG54 does. More just a hobby for me. Especially the speakers part. You know, the least important one...cheers,
AJ
The threshold for disproving something is higher than the threshold for saying it, which is a recipe for the accumulation of bullshit - Softky
Follow Ups:
I am just getting into speakers. I have a lot to learn. Hindsight is 20/20 and it is now clear that I would have been better served to start with speakers.I'm a lover too. Perhaps that is why I couldn't afford to address speakers before. But now that the divorce and subsquent high maintenance GF is over, and the kid is almost through college, perhaps I will have some discretionary funds!
Now if I could only decide on a crossover. The thought of op amps and going digital is too much to bear. I have to reconcile that with the reality that room compensation, time aligment, phase coherence, and all of that stuff that I don't understand well enough, is most easily addressed by such technology.
Perhaps you have some words of advice? I'd like to understand the pros/cons of FIR filters better.
R57 - I am just getting into speakers. I have a lot to learn. Hindsight is 20/20 and it is now clear that I would have been better served to start with speakers.Actually start with the room. Then decide on the speaker design
R57 - Now if I could only decide on a crossover. The thought of op amps and going digital is too much to bear. I have to reconcile that with the reality that room compensation, time aligment, phase coherence, and all of that stuff that I don't understand well enough, is most easily addressed by such technology.
I take it that you only listen to analog? Even if you do, your stored electrical signals have most likely already been passed through op amps in the recording studio. Do they all sound terrible to you? Needless to say, if you listen to stored signals on CD, you are already in the digital domain. A good place to be for the aforementioned "stuff" that can transcend your music reproduction experience from the ordinary to the extraordinary.
R57 - Perhaps you have some words of advice? I'd like to understand the pros/cons of FIR filters better.
It is better to focus on the forest first rather than the tree. I use IIR filters myself, although FIR could be in my future since I do use and prefer coincident drivers. Zero phase shift filters have their limitations as do the non zero phase approx 2nd order bandpass transducers they are applied to. Linkwitz has a nice little write up on his huge web resource (link). The entire site is like a speaker building encyclopedia. Well worth the days of reading it would take to traverse.
My advice is after determining your budget, decide based upon where your speakers can be placed in your room, what type of design to go with. Then SPL requirements vs frequency. There is no one solution. Rather, there are quite a few. I chose correlated drivers (by wavelength) controlled directivity (cd) with some rear wave spatial enhancement (Open Baffle, dipole), coupled to pressure sources (monopoles) where room modes are sparse (below 40hz). If the room is smaller or you prefer a less 3D (with lots of depth) image, then perhaps something with a high front to back rejection ratio with correlated drivers such as a horn (like Danleys Synergy) or a cardioid coaxial (like the Gradient Revolution or some ME Geithain) with dipole or cardioid (cd/ -4.8db less power)radiation throughout the modal region of the room. I prefer maintaining Directivity Index all the way down into the very low bass. You may not.cheers,
AJ
The threshold for disproving something is higher than the threshold for saying it, which is a recipe for the accumulation of bullshit - Softky
My room is impossible and short of putting up a movable room divider setup like they have in large conference centers I can't see how it could ever be optimum (L-shaped with many openings).Yes I am an analog guy and yes you are right that long before I get my hands on the software all kinds of things have been done. So yes in many ways it is silly of me to not consider a digital based crossover with EQ. Even moreso given the room problems.
I don't know the lingo well enough to understand all that you have said with regards to speaker types. At this point I am running a mid-range on an open baffle with a CD horn with compression driver for the top end (audax pr170mo and 18sound xt1086/nd1090). Bass is yet to be decided but for reasons you mentioned I'd like to try open baffle (which would also require EQing). I can live with -3db around 35 hertz and don't require flat to 20 hertz.
So as I say I have much to learn and am certainly likely to make some bad decisions along the way. Hopefully if I ask enough guys enough questions I can limit them. Of course I need to learn enough to know who's advice to pay attention to.
I guess I have gotten spoiled with the tube forums because we are more inclined to look at someone's schematic and make suggestions or even redraw it if needed. Even the commercial guys post schematics of their successful designs. Speaker guys seem to be a little more close mouthed. No doubt due to the amount of R&D time invovled.
I appreciate you taking the time to answer my questions.
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