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Hi,I am planning the build of my music server PC. For a variety of reasons this will be in the listening room and I'd like to leave it on all the time so I am planning on building the unit around a mini-iTX board.
This puts me into the realm of VIA chipsets and boards - although I could go Intel with higher watts and a fan or two. An immediate concern if I go fanless and VIA is chipset stability and driver issues as all my previous systems have been Intel based.
In particular I have plans on installing the Juli@ soundcard. This will feed over an optical cable into a Lavry DA-10 DAC. One of the things that appeals to me about the Juli@ over the cheaper Chaintech is it's apparent rock solid stability with drivers. I'm wondering if anyone has any experience - good or bad - with the Juli@ and VIA based chipsets/mobos.
Thanks,
Dave M
Follow Ups:
I have the Juli@, but don't have the VIA board, instead use a Dell (Intel chipset) with a BTX motherboard. Nice and quiet.The Juli@ drivers are solid and have been without issues, and the control program is very easy to use. My guess is you shouldn't worry too much about it in the VIA.
It might not make sense but I don't really feel too inclined to go the Mac mini route.Although I did come across a site yesterday showing how you can remote into a Mac computer from a PC using open and free softs. Apparently Foobar can also run on a Mac.....so technically I might be able to achieve what I want by going Mac but it does sound paradoxically a little more convoluted than staying with what I know and doing this on a PC platform.
Still....won't rule out the Mac entirely just yet.
Best,
Dave M
Is it so that it is quiet? If so, I want you to know that you don't have to go with Gucci comp parts just to get quiet. Get what you want and then make it quiet.I built a smokin' fast AMD64 based media center pc not long ago using vantec case fans, an arctic cooling processor fan, an artic cooling v-card cooling kit (uses a fan), and a super silent Antec power supply (again, with a fan), and this thing is both cool and dead quiet. The only fan that you can hear at all is the chipset fan which I never got around to replacing because it doesn't make enough noise to justify the trouble of changing it out. You can't hear any fan noise at all from this box unless the comp is under a load (i.e., the chipset fan flips on) and you are within 3 feet of it.
The only noise that you can hear from this computer beyond three feet is the rattle, rumble and clicking of the chips/processor when it's processing. If I replaced the chipset fan that clicking would be the only thing you could hear from any distance.
It doesn't sound like cooling is going to be an issue for you for what you are trying to do. You aren't trying to overclock processors, or run a heavy graphics load or do anything that will require a lot of memory. As such, there are plenty of aftermarket products available to you for surprisingly little money that will help you reach a goal of both cool and quiet.
Thanks. My reasons for interest in a mini-iTX system are outlined on my first post:1. Quiet
2. Low power use (6W idle) meaning I can leave it on 24/7 and make that little contribution to the world by being more aware of my carbon footprint.I don't need a smoking fast box for serving media files as you rightly point out. So either a mini-iTX or Mac mini would both do fine; neither are particularly expensive, and neither would require esoteric cooling or noise reduction measures.
My one major concern (and the reason for my post) has been with the VIA chipset and Juli@ combination as VIA chipsets are an unknown to me.
Hey Dave, while not an exact answer to your question, I have had no problems with teh via chips and my Lynx card.
I had overlooked the mega 'art of computer transports' thread though.Read it now and printed out the doc from cics. There's some interesting stuff in there.
Despite not being a zealot for either the Mac or PC platform my reading on this is both can be made to sound good. The configuration doc and various additions in that thread gave some really helpful pointers that basically go down the road I was heading anyway.
It may alter somewhat my build but whatever I do will be a low power and if at all possible fanless unit.
In my case I will be outputting from the computer to a Lavry DA10 DAC (AES, optical, and S/PDIF digital inputs).
From a posting some weeks ago I gather my best option is to take an optical out from the computer, thereby reducing any chances of EMI affecting the signal. The Lavry reclocks the signal so jitter created within the computer is not really an issue in my case.
Best,
Dave M
Dave,First the Via boards are pretty cheap, slow and are not the quietest of units. What I mean is that even though you cannot hear it, it is the one of the most nasty in the way it delivers power thoughout the unit. The number of DCDC supplies are killers to the sound. ESPECIALLY if you use an internal card. Man it killed the Lynx l22 to the point I thought the thing was bad.
I have 8 computers here now and my suggestion would be a Mac Mini also put a 250-350gb fire wire pedastal drive underneath. The mac over all the pc's either linux, XP or even Vista always sound better. Also it takes such less hassle getting there and keeping it running.
Thanks
Gordon
J. Gordon Rankin
Thanks for your comments Gord.I will admit the Lacie/Mac Mini stack looks sexy.
Still, I can configure a fanless mini-ITX system for less money and that includes the Juli@ soundcard.
What I take from your post is that the VIA chipset/boards in particular appear to create a large amount of electrical noise within the computer enclosure. However, my plan is to output to my DAC from the optical out on the Juli@.
Surely this makes any potential EMI in the PC a moot point doesn't it?
I mean, there are well documented configs for getting bit perfect audiostream throughput with the Juli@. If I tap into this via optical why would I care what kind of electrical noise is getting generated in the PC box?
Hoping I'm not overlooking something,
Dave M
Dave,The critical part is the Juli will be subjected to massive crap. Therefore the SPDIF will suffer. Not to mention the fact that Toslink sucks as it is.
I would suggest getting a card that has a BNC SPDIF if that is what you want. Also make sure your dac has a transformer coupled input.
Thanks
Gordon
J. Gordon Rankin
Thanks Gord,Another issue is I'm deep into PC-based software. This includes a great ripping program dBpoweramp Reference, a super cool configuration with Foobar2000 plus my entire catalog of other softs.
I have heard/read somewhere that Macs had made some serious efforts to allow people to run PC softs on a Mac platform but am not sure what the status is on that. I do seem to recall many years ago they also provided some kind of PC emulation mode but it seemed quite anemic from what I recall hearing. Have things really changed or is there still a noticeable performance hit?
Best,
Dave M
Dave,A MAC will always work better than a PC. 99% of all recording studio's use MAC's. Why because they work and work really well. They come with everything and don't give you fits all day long.
Most PC software sucks. I know I use to write the damn stuff.
I have a ton of customers who used PC's. Then they got a mac and were shocked at how much better it sounded and worked.
Try you will like it too...
Thanks
Gordon
J. Gordon Rankin
Well, it's true that many studios usa a Mac, but the reason for this is that the most popular professional suite is ProTools which has long been subsidized by Apple and they only make a Mac version.I talked to a Protools developer last year who told me they were making a PC version of the product, but Apple gave them a bunch of money to stop development.
It's not that the pro world are such fanboys for Macs, it's that they don't have an option when using Protools.
With Macs running Intel chips now, there is no difference in the quality of software between Mac and PC. They are both subject to the eccentricities of the architecture.
Gordon, show me proof of this that 99 percent of recording studios use Macs. You make very bold statements that need to be backed up by fact, not because you say so. Most PC software sucks? In what arena are we talking about here, video, music, games, ETC..... Seems to me that most pro software is written for PC not MAC's. ( Im speaking on music ) By the way, what softwares did you write for PC's, music by chance?
Given that the MAC Mini are now based on Intel Core 2 Duo processors, couldn't you boot WinDoze on it and run PC applications natively?Spike
Currently, Mac OSX is codenamed "Tiger" and is 10.4.9. Boot Camp is a free download and it's in Beta 2 form. It now runs Vista. In a month or two Mac will release "Leopard" which is OSX 10.5 and it will have the official release of Boot Camp included.With boot camp you can run XP or Vista and you select the OS at boot up. Also, you can buy a program called "Parallels" that runs on the Mac and runs Windows in a virtual machine so you can switch between the two without rebooting. They have a new version that actually runs Windows programs on the Mac desktop without have to switch to a Windows desktop.
However, the Mac has some good programs to rip CDs and play FLAC files, but most Mac users rip in iTunes to ALAC and use it to playback as well. There's nothing wrong with iTunes and there is a rumor that FLAC support will be added soon. If you use an Mini and iTunes for your music server you can use the included remote control to control iTunes too.
I've never used a Mac before getting the Mini, but it's easy to use and works great. There is a 500 Gig version of the external drive that fits under the Mini too.
I'm a PC guy that has done as you are doing but I went with a Mac Mini. They are inexpensive ($500) and come pre-loaded with everything you need. Including an optical S/PDIF output -- plus 802.11g Wifi and Bluetooth all standard.They have no fan and are silent in every way.
I looked at going the Mini ATX PC route and it was twice as much money.
Paul Green
Thanks,I did look at the Minis but what I see on the website shows these as topping out with 160 GB drives.
I am after a minimum of 500 gigs of storage and I don't want flac files being served over a wireless network with the (albeit occasional) risk of dropouts.
Keen to know if I'm wrong on the Mac's capacity. Other thing is I plan on interfacing with the unit via a UMPC operating Remote Desktop Connection. I assume Macs support some similar telnet interface to 'see' onto the desktop of another computer on the network but right now all the UMPC development is on the PC platform.
Best,
Dave M
You'd have to use an external HD at this time to go bigger than 160 gig. I have a 320 gig Firewire HD that I'm using -- it cost $150. You can get 500 gig FW external for $200 these days.As for drop outs wirelessly, I haven't had one and I'm using ALAC files. I'm using it with a Squeezebox. But the Mini has a digital out (mini optical S/PDIF) and even a remote control as standard.
You can control the Mac remotely with VNC. There may be others but I know folks use VNC. I'm using a simple USB KVM switch and use my Dell's Keyboard, Mouse and 19" LCD monitor. It works great. Just a push of a button on my desktop to switch back and forth between the Mac and PC.
Also, there is a Mac program for ripping to FLAC -- it's called Max.
Good Luck
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