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In Reply to: Re: The art of building Computer Transports posted by cics on April 8, 2007 at 08:07:11:
Nobody is asking you to repeat yourself. You made ascertions. I am asking you to clarify whether you have made direct comparisons between high ens and your computer.It seems that you have not. I have, and I do not agree with your generalised blanket statement.
Follow Ups:
On direct comparisons, do you mean something like this (as stated by kana@audiogon):"Unless you test all the transports you listed and your PC transport with the same DAC, your statement that PC transports lead to a new level of digital audio performance is just a guess."
My response (I have expanded a bit):
Not sure of that methodology being the correct one, as systems that I auditioned were well setup and optimized within entire ‘system’. There is much to do with cable synergy, power conditioning, power cords, room acoustics, to preamp or not, etc..
Nevertheless, many people are finding computer transports to yield better performance – this is not something new. Look at the Nova Physics Memory Player (link below), which is a computer transport but costs $10k. Its getting rave reviews, e.g. Positive Feedback or Stereo Times. Side by side comparisons are done (as in direct comparisons) against Esoteric P03 and Zanden Stack where the Memory Player was preferred. My problem with the Memory Player is its proprietary architecture (no open standards like .cue files and choice of playback software, e.g. foobar2000 or winamp) and cost (similar performance can be had at much less).
No. You say you have listened to dCS etc. You don't say if you have compared a dCS system with a computer as transport, keeping the rest of the system the same.It is the attention to detail which ultimately determine the fidelity of a system; clock, cable, etc all come into it.
You cannot say that any 'decent' sound card in a computer system with all your tweaks is better than high end systems as a general rule
I see. The methodology you are proposing is not correct to determine superiority of computer transports over high-end traditional CD transports. I’ll explain later.Methodology proposed: keeping rest of system same whilst CD transport is changed to computer and comparing results. I have summarized this in my initial remarks introducing this topic.
Here is the details. Extensive testing and comparisons over several months was done against the AA Prestige SE internal transports. Initial Philips transport (as used in dCS Verdi La Scala & Encore and EmmLabs transport) was upgraded to a Sony (which I believe is also being used by dCS, EmmLabs and Wadia replacing Philips and Teac VRDS).
My findings on this were posted on Audiogon. Here are the relevant comments:
"... Philips offered overall good sound with SACD being its strong point. The Sony has improved CD playback by a good margin with more detail and a blacker background making for even better musicality. On SACD, its pretty much the same. It also operates faster and offers text messages on SACD (Album, Title, etc.)...
Using a Computer Transport, feeding 24/96 via toslink (glass fibre) to player (DAC), I get even better results! Improvement over Philips drive was very obvious but less so with Sony. Computer over Sony drive yields more clarity on low level information and tighter bass. However, setting up such a computer transport was not easy (and cost me ~$2000 including $450 toslink cable).
Things got very interesting when I upgraded interconnects to Synergistic Research's new Tesla Apex (from SR Absolute Ref). Active shielding is done by Quattro unit powered by SR Abs Ref Power Cord. ...
As I suspected, improvements between transports widened significantly. Now, the computer transport yielded much more information over the Sony (and the improvements are very obvious). Things like dynamics (both macro & micro), fleshing out inner detail of instruments, bass and imaging are just splendid. I am amazed at how much music is stored on CDs! ..."
On the example of dCS, here’s a recently received email quote from a Purcell / Elgar owner who shares his experience on computer transports as follows: "The result is wonderful and better than any transport that I have heard.".
Whilst this establishes computers relative strength of over CD transports, as a methodology to suggest computers are superior to highend transports is not enough. Instead, I prefer the additional approach where high-end CD transports are auditioned in their optimal respective systems (with the requisite attention to detail you speak of). Hence initial remarks on this topic: “Having the pleasure to listen to high-end transports (Wadia 270SE, Esoteric P03, MBL's $20,000+ 1621A, full DCS stack), I am comfortable in saying that Computers have outclassed them.”
Sorry, I respect your views but the methodology you post is Voodoo stuff. One simply cannot take a Philips transport and use Toslink to validate differences. Also, what is the optimal setup for a particular box? There are as many variables as as in your computer setup.It seems to me that there are just too many variables in your paper to make valid ascertations in general.
I have over several years developed my fanless low power computer system in parallel with my hifi. My conclusion after many iterations is as follows.
'An optimised HD system can be better than a non optimised high end system but an optimised high end system is even better. The problem with an HD system lies in inferior hardware and software limitations over which the user have little control'
The Audiogon stuff you posted doesn't allow anyone to make a valid judgement. Also jitter is not properly understood in postings on computer ausio and this is a major issue not caused merely by drives and interfaces, but also power supply and data transfer issues.
Finally, you must know that a cumputer with a fan degardes the effective signal to noise ratio from say, -105 dB to perhaps -70 to 80 dB unless you isolate the computer. Even then, the vibrations in an HD can be very significant by way of microphony!
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