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Speaking as a Prodigy 7.1 owner

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Christine Tham

(R)

In Reply to: Re: My understanding is you only need bit perfect output into your Lavry DA10... posted by Jim F. on February 20, 2007 at 15:34:19:

The drivers are not very stable (I'm using 2.18 downloaded from the Korean site). Yes they are impressive from a functionality perspective (support for Q sound, WDM, ASIO, GSIF etc. plus ReWire) but on my machine if two applications both try to open an ASIO connection (this is not unusual for example if you are in Cubase and want to open Wavelab for example to edit an audio file), the drivers crash the machine with a blue screen of death. The drivers also have issues if the system goes in and out of standby.
Also, the drivers have not been updated for a year, and so far no promise of Vista support.
Sorry to be a bit negative on this.

Follow Ups:

Better negative than uninformed... - dave in gva 22:27:14 02/20/07 (11)
Thanks Christine and Jim F.
I don't want to hijack this thread from Mose but I am very much interested in a similar situation (minus the desire to get into DSP).
I am looking to build the best PC system I can to feed a Lavry DA10 DAC. This DAC has AES, optical, and S/PDIF digital inputs.
So what I am after immediately upstream is the best output solution from the PC to pass a bit perfect bitstream into this (relatively) high end DAC.
I am only interested in two channel playback, and am not into audio editing, CD creation etc. etc. So all of the multi-channel soundcards etc are overkill for me, as are those that incorporate DACs and ADCs onboard. As I understand it there are two broad options:
1. A PCI board which could start at the Chaintech and go up in terms of price and features (most of which I would not use). In this set of options the Juli@ is a card that strikes as being well regarded and may not have the driver issues Christine mentions.
2. A USB-based external soundcard capable of passing a bitperfect output stream to the DAC. If I understand correctly a USB-based solution would minimize the possibility of PC noise entering the DAC.
With either solution I am not so worried about jitter as the DA10 will reclock the digital input.
Thanks for comments on these two pathways, whether there are others I should consider, and whether my understanding of a USB-based soundcard being potentially better is correct. If so, I would love to hear some names of candidate outboard USB soundcards capable of bitperfect feeding of a digital stream to the DAC.
Thanks as always, and apologies to Mose if this is sidetracking the original post.
Dave M
- Cheapest possible solution - Christine Tham 22:53:32 02/20/07 (10)
  Since the LA10 reclocks everything, the jitter of the digital signal is not really an issue.The normal concern about optical out (high jitter) doesn't really apply in this case.
  Therefore, you should be able to get away with an optical digital out. Optical has the advantage that there's no electrical connection between the PC and the DA10, hence no possibility of logic induced modulation from the PC. This is a big win in my book - even better than using USB (since arguably there is still an electrical connection).
  Given that, even a cheap motherboard based audio codec will do, as long as it has an SPDIF header and you get an optical out bracket.
  If you are running XP, you need to find something that is bit perfect if you use DirectKS. From memory, there are a few motherboard HD audio chipsets that will do this (but I seem to recall the trick is to substitute the vendor specific driver with the generic UAA driver - suddenly 44.1 is available over SPDIF - for example, this worked on a PC I have with a Cmedia 9880). With Vista this is less of an issue - just about any HD Audio codec should do.
  A Juli@ is okay (but from memory has no ASIO driver, only DirectKS?). Otherwise a low end XFi or the 0404 will also do the trick. Try and pick something with native ASIO drivers if possible, and try and avoid using ASIO4ALL (simpler is better, and less chance of problems).
  - Re: Cheapest possible solution - ThomasPf 01:49:34 02/21/07 (8)
    I have a Juli@ in one of my systems and it works quite well. It actually has a native ASIO driver which seems to work rock solid with Jriver. ESI has even released a Vista driver so you should be fine whatever OS you are choosing.
    Compared to the Maudio DIO24/96 in my main system there are a few minor quibbles.
    - It only supports sample rates of 44.1Khz and up. That means you can't listen to many clips from the WEB.
    - You can not control the output volume of the S/PDIF output. Not a problem if you only plan to go to a DA10 but can be limiting for other uses.
    - If you plan to route system sounds and you music playback to the same card then the ASIO output cuts out while system sounds are playing. On the M-audio the sounds get mixed preserving the bit-perfect property if only the ASIO stream is playing. I have system sounds configured to go to a different card on thr system with the Juli@.
    The DA10 is a nice DAC.
    Cheers
    Thomas
    - Thanks Thomas - what digital out are you using off your Juli@? - dave in gva 02:13:18 02/21/07 (7)
      Hi Thomas, as I see you are inputting on this thread, thought I'd copy/paste a query I had for you on an earlier thread:
      If I may ask, which connection are you using from the Juli@ to run into the Lavry? And is there any value to be had in going with any kind of exotic interconnect at this stage of the chain?
      From what I can read there would not be since the signal is reclocked by the DA10 and the only issue should be avoiding passage of electrical interference from the PC into the DAC.
      Finally, I have looked at the Juli@ and it does look like a nice card and a good value, but if with the Lavry all one needs to do is get bit perfect data into the DA10 and even a $25 card can do that I am wondering if I even need to go with the Juli@. I plan on having this system only for audio playback off the server (don't need recording capability etc. etc) so if I can save some money on the soundcard without sacrificing audio quality I am all for it.
      Thanks and best wishes,
      Dave M
      - Re: Thanks Thomas - what digital out are you using off your Juli@? - ThomasPf 10:55:18 02/21/07 (0)
        
        In Reply to: Thanks Thomas - what digital out are you using off your Juli@? posted by dave in gva on February 21, 2007 at 02:13:18:
        
        I am currently not using the Juli@ with a DAC. I have connected the balanced outputs to a pair of active Spendor BC1 and that also works quite well.
        when I had the Lavry connected to this card I was using Toslink for the reasons given by Christine and Jim.
        A cheaper card will also do if you are only interested in the optical output but in my case I wanted good analog outputs with small and robust ASIO drivers as well.
        Cheers
        Thomas
      - Re: Thanks Thomas - what digital out are you using off your Juli@? - Jim F. 07:45:57 02/21/07 (5)
        
        In Reply to: Thanks Thomas - what digital out are you using off your Juli@? posted by dave in gva on February 21, 2007 at 02:13:18:
        
        > If I may ask, which connection are you using from the Juli@
        > to run into the Lavry? And is there any value to be had
        > in going with any kind of exotic interconnect at this
        > stage of the chain?
        I am not Thomas, but I thought I'd chime in in support of
        what Christine said about optical. I like the idea of electrical
        isolation between the PC and the stereo, and if you're
        reclocking at the receiving end, you don't have to worry
        about jitter.
        Another great thing about optical -- you can use really **long**
        runs of it. I've had no problems at all with 50-foot Hosa
        optical cables. Your Mileage Might Vary, I suppose, depending
        on the details of the S/PDIF (or ADAT -- I've used both)
        transmitter and receiver, but I have yet to have any
        problems that could be attributed to using long optical cable runs.
        Optical is light (no pun intended) and flexible, too.
        
        Long runs are a good idea - Christine Tham 10:30:05 02/21/07 (4)
        
        In Reply to: Re: Thanks Thomas - what digital out are you using off your Juli@? posted by Jim F. on February 21, 2007 at 07:45:57:
        
        It means the PC can be positioned far away (perhaps even in another room or the attic/basement) which reduces the possibility of EMI interference with the rest of the system.
        WinAmp for example can be controlled via a web browser - any Wi Fi PDA can do that.
        This almost makes me feel like rushing out to buy a DA10. Except I'm already pretty happy with my current system :-)
        
        A short run is all I need but I like the electrical disconnect advantage anyway - dave in gva 11:02:59 02/21/07 (3)
        
        In Reply to: Long runs are a good idea posted by Christine Tham on February 21, 2007 at 10:30:05:
        
        Thanks Jim and Christine. My plan is to have the PC, DA10, and integrated amplifier all out of sight and sitting adjacent to one another on a shelf I'll build in the basement, just below the listening room. The amp and DAC will be powered off one of those master/slave extension cords with the PC on the master outlet, meaning that when the PC is shutdown the DAC and amp will automatically power down as well (and repower on when the PC is remote booted via a wake on LAN call).
        This means I am talking about very short runs on the interconnects between PC and DAC, and DAC to amplifier. The longest run will be the speaker cables off the integrated amplifier up through the roof of the basement into the living room, but even this run will be on the order of 2-3 metres max. From what I've read on cabling discussions one is better off with longer runs of speaker cables than equipment interconnects.
        So the only evidence of an audio system in the listening room will be the speakers. I'm not thoroughly decided on remote control but at this point I'd have to say I'm inclined towards a UMPC that accesses the remote PC via the remote desktop facility of Windows XP. I'm planning volume control via this as well by asking the remote PC to fire an IR blast (it will have a USB based IR transceiver) at the integrated amp. This latter process can be accomplished with something like Girder on the remote PC.
        So I feel like I am closing in on the architecture of the system. These threads help enormously. Thanks for allowing me to benefit from your experience.
        Best,
        Dave M
        
        Here's a crazy idea - Christine Tham 12:05:31 02/21/07 (2)
        
        In Reply to: A short run is all I need but I like the electrical disconnect advantage anyway posted by dave in gva on February 21, 2007 at 11:02:59:
        
        If everything is in the basement anyway, there's no need for the three components to be next to each other. In fact, the further apart they are, the less the chance of EMI interference between them. You don't need to be on opposite ends of the room - even a few feet/metres may make a big difference.
        And you probably want to avoid powering the amp and DAC using the same circuit as the PC, for reasons already discussed (possibility of interference).
        What you can do if you are really keen is:
        - power the amp and DAC using a dedicated power line, and put some filtering/condition on this circuit.
        - the PC can be powered the household circuit, and turns the amp and DAC on and off using X10.
        - volume control can be achieved using IR blasting as you suggest
        
        Thanks will give it some thought.....whats X10 (nt)? - dave in gva 19:54:14 02/22/07 (1)
        
        In Reply to: Here's a crazy idea posted by Christine Tham on February 21, 2007 at 12:05:31:
        
        :~)
        
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X10_(industry_standard) - Christine Tham 20:41:03 02/22/07 (0)
        
        In Reply to: Thanks will give it some thought.....whats X10 (nt)? posted by dave in gva on February 22, 2007 at 19:54:14:
        
        .
  - Cool. Thanks Christine (nt) - dave in gva 00:48:05 02/21/07 (0)
    :~)

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