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I have downloaded some really nice albums in very high resolution, 32 bit / 88.2Khz Windows Media Lossless files. I am trying to figure out how to play and convert these files.Some players will play the files - Foobar, Winows Media Player etc. but they all downsample the output to 16 bit. Samplitude will import the file and will automatically downsample to 16/88.2 .
So, I would like to hear it as it's original 32 bits. Or, maybe downsample to 24/88.2 which will still be pretty nice. I can't find a tool that will do that.
I was trying to transcode the file to Wav, but every transcoder I have tried downsamples the file, ususally to 16 bit.
So I would like to find:
Something that will play a 32 bit file, maybe a pro editing package.
Something that will support a transcode to WAV or other lossless format without downsampling.
Something that will allow me to downsample from 32 to 24 bits (but my files will probably have to be in WAV already).
Any ideas?
Follow Ups:
I loaded the Linn test file into Audition and it is 88.2kHz/32b,
with an effective resolution of 24 bit.
bring bac k dynamic range
It converts 24-bit to 32-bits when it opens the file.I downloaded the "tone24bit.wma" file from Linn, and verified it's properties using Windows Explorer, which confirmed it is an 88.2kHz 24-bit WMA Lossless file (under Properties).
Hey gang:I've used Cool Edit Pro (demo) back when I was playing with all that good room correction stuff. Cool Edit Pro was bought by Adobe and made into Adobe Audition.
Yes, it opens 24 bit files as 32 bit. BUT if you select the entire waveform and perform an analysis, it report "actual bit depth" as being 24 on the nose.
SO. Is this a case of "container size" versus actual bitdepth?
Or is the sofware actually resampling to 32 bit and doing dithering or padding or God knows what else?
I seem to recall early versions of Cool Edit never supported 24-bit (ie. you can't even save to a 24-bit file format).When 24-bit support was added in, Cool Edit would open it in 32-bit floating point mode. Then when you save the file, Cool Edit would reconvert back to a 24-bit format. This behaviour has stuck to this date even in Adobe Audition.
Conversely, if you open a 24-bit file in Sound Forge for example, it stays in 24-bit mode even across editing tasks.
Audition internally supports only 16b and 32b. However, you can read and save in all possible formats, e.g. 24b actual data in a 32b container.If my writing implied that the file itself was 32b then blame my foggy brain (just got daddy - second time - and the quantities of night rest are at a historical low here). I haven't checked the actual file format (i.e. 24b or 32b), but this doesn't really matter as stats analysis reveals that the actual data in the file are at 24b resolution.
What *is* annoying with Audition, however, is that it always tries to add dither when you do something (anything), and there are a zillion buttons to be pushed to switch this off (actually 2, but well-hidden). But once off Audition is clean as a whistle and utterly dependable.
*** What *is* annoying with Audition, however, is that it always tries to add dither when you do something (anything) ***Yeah, I found this annoying too. Best practice should be do all processing at highest possible bit depth (32 bit floating point is okay, but ideally it should be 64 bits or better because you can still see occasional artefacts in 32-bit depending on effect complexity) and then dither to desired output resolution only on the last step.
I'm not sure the way Sound Forge does it is fantastic either. If you open a 24-bit file in Sound Forge, it will truncate all intermediate effects processing to 24-bits. I've encountered more than a few artefacts because of this.
I downloaded Linn Record's Brahms Quintet in the highest resolution offered, studio master, and it is clearly 24 bit, 48kHz files. It also doesn't sound much better, if any, compared to well-recorded 16/44.1 material.
Linn's hi-rez files vary in specs by title. Some are 24/88, some 24/44, some 24/48.
Foobar should not down sample.Try Audition 2 but I don't know if it accepts wma. I don't use it myself.
nt
They are from Linn Records
Hmmm...I would open them in a wav file editor like cool edit pro and see what the *actual* bit depth is.
You can record at 32 bit and resample to 32 bit but often the file is 24 bit or even 16 bit. Recording software set to 32 bit will only record 32 bit if the hardware supports this bit depth. This is why files *saved* as 32 bit may have lower *actual* bitdepths. Of course, you can GENERATE 32 bit files...
As for playback? I don't think you're going to find too many 32 bit dacs.
Is this material upsampled?
I thought only processing was done at 32 or 64 bit... not playback.
I think these were converted from DSD to PCM. Also, as PCM masters they are good, because to downsample to 16/44.1 is easy and accurate.It's true, my DAC doesn't support 32 bit, but it can easily resample down.
If I could just transcode them to WAV I would have a lot more flexibilty. I don't trust many of the consumer resamplers/downsamplers, I have access to a number of pro versions that do a great job.
I didn't think 32-bit integer is a valid profile for Windows Media lossless (i.e. you can't compress at that resolution)I suspect they are 24-bit (but stored as 32-bit floating point - with 8 bits for exponent), in which case they will play fine on WinAmp.
I'm currently experimenting with converting DSD to 88.2/24, and I'm planning to use WinAmp to play them.
I suspect you are right, as I am getting ambigous results. Some programs say they are 32 bit, and some say they are 24 bit. But programs like Samplitude are automically downsampling them when I open it, because they don't support 32 bit.
Read up the specs on Windows Media Audio lossless.Basically, WMA Lossless is not a "universal" encoder/decoder, ie. it does not support all sample rates and bit depth, only the ones predefined in profiles.
WMA 9.1 (as distributed in Windows Player 10) and below only supported a very limited number of profiles. For example, you can encode 5.1 channels in 96kHz 24-bit, but not 88.2kHz for example (although 2ch is supported).
WMA 9.2/10 (as distributed in Windows Player 11) supports a greater number of profiles, but as I recall it doesn't support any 32-bit profile (but I could be wrong on this).
Anyway, you should be able to decode these files back to WAV (Microsoft has a command line decoder you can download) or use a program like dbPowerAmp (latest release R112 supports WMA10).
Plus, as I've said before, WinAmp should be able to play these files back at 24-bit resolution.
When you load them into meda player and look at the properties it reportsWindows Media Audio 9.2 Lossless
VBR Quality 100, 88 kHz, 2 channel 24 bit 1-pass VBRWhen I convert it with Jriver Media Center it comes out as a standard 24bit / 88Khz wav file.
However, this is only for the test tracks and I thought that Linn is only selling these hidef tracks with DRM on them and at that point you can not decompress them to WAV. Does anyone know for sure?
Cheers
Linn is selling these tracks without DRM, they say they WANT users to convert or decode them as they see fit. I think this is because they know that many users may have to transcode them and downsample them to be able to play in things like iTunes.
Right click the WMA file in Windows explorer, select Properties, then the Summary tab, then click on Advanced. The information window will confirm that the files are WMA Lossless 88.2kHz 24-bit resolution.I think Linn says on the website that they don't apply DRM on the download files that they sell.
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