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I am looking to replace my laptop that I use as the "driver" for my FLAC hard drive-based audio system. I still have a CD player but it gets very little use at this point. In shopping around, I noticed that several laptop manufacturers actually supply digital audio out (S/PDIF) on several models. The main machines I have seen that do this are from Acer and Hewlett-Packard (Pavillion). So my questions are:1. Is there any laptop that can provide an "optical audio out"? Are there any other laptops (at or around $1k or less) that provide either S/PDIF or optical audio outs?
2. In theory (a big *IF*, of course), a computer providing S/PDIF out should be better than USB->S/PDIF->DAC, correct? Right now I'm using a HagUSB to convert the sound from my laptop. Does anyone have any direct experience using the H-P Pavillion S/PDIF outputs that can comment on the jitter and/or sound quality?
3. I like Macs as a concept, but I can't go with them because they don't support FLAC (inexcusable as far as I am concerned -- Apple doesn't seem to have learned from their proprietary/closed architecture mistakes from the '80's and '90's). I know there are several ways to get a Mac to play a FLAC file. Has anyone found one that they consider a good solution for a very (very) large song repository?
4. Semi related question: I also have an Airport Express that has a (mini-) optical audio out. I know you can't play FLAC files on an Apple system directly, but can you use a laptop to play FLAC files and stream the output to an Airport Express? I guess the question is this: when a laptop streams audio to an Airport Express, in what format does it do so? If it converts the audio to WAV before streaming (which Airport Express *DOES* support), perhaps that may help to solve considerably my problem.
As an FYI to inform this discussion, I just received a battery-powered Altmann DAC for my system. If I can find a good laptop solution that would allow me to use one of the two Altmann inputs (S/PDIF and Optical) for the laptop and one for the output of the CD player, I think I could be done churning equipment for a while.
Thanks in advance for any help/insight you can provide.
Follow Ups:
Altmann recommends optical input to his DAC.
The Airport Express has an optical output.iTunes -- PC or MAC -- wireless network -- Airport Express --Altmann DAC . It sounds like you have all the pieces to do this so why not try it?
I'm doing this and it sounds wonderful.
While I too inherently oppose iTunes on the basis that it is a closed system, it really is a very good one if not the best. EAC + foobar is just way to convoluted for me to even consider. The other players I tried don't stack up to iTunes. I hate to admit it but Apple has the best interface so that's what I use.
"2. In theory , a computer providing S/PDIF out should be better than USB-> S/PDIF-> DAC, correct?"No, just the opposite. The external converter, if well designed, will outperform the integrated computer output, for several reasons:
1) the power from the computer is not used for the converter
2) the clock in the converter can be higher quality than that in the computer or on a PCI card
3) Most computer S/PDIF outputs are not galvanically isolated, so ground-loops are created between the computer and audio system
4) Toslink provides isolation, but has by far the worst jitter of the interfaces"I also have an Airport Express that has a (mini-) optical audio out. I know you can't play FLAC files on an Apple system directly, but can you use a laptop to play FLAC files and stream the output to an Airport Express? I guess the question is this: when a laptop streams audio to an Airport Express, in what format does it do so?"
Yes, the AE will output audio data from the Toslink output. You just need a special cable or an adapter (I can give you one for free). The format of the AE is Apple Lossless. Everything is converted to AL and then decoded at the AE end.
dB,I got pissed off at how cheap and ill creative pc's where so I bought a mac PowerBook and run XP on it. The latest drivers that are on Boot Camp are the best PC drivers I have ever used. The USB drivers are far better than the other PC's I have around. I would imagine the sound drivers are equally good.
More PC makers should offer updated drivers. I think that is the biggest problem with PC's. The drivers are not as good as they could be.
Wow, now there's a creative solution. Gordon, you took my ill-formed ideas about a "laptop of the future" and presented a consolidated answer to most of my problems. I guess that's why you're the guru....and I'm not.A couple of follow-up questions (though anyone should feel free to answer):
1. In that MacBook scenario, can I run *both* the Apple O/S and XP? If so, what is the minimum hard drive I should consider? MacBooks seem to come with 60GB, but 80GB is not much more.
2. Is 512MB really enough on the MacBooks? Should I opt for 1GB...especially if I'm going to run the piggy O/S known as Windows?
3. IS there an additional cost to purchase Windows XP on the MacBook? Or does BootCamp provide XP as part of the package pricing for the MacBook itself?
4. Gordon (specifically), do you like the Optical out on the MacBooks? From what I've heard/read, they're the only ones who seem to have implemented it reasonable well in a laptop configuration. I was wondering if you found it more or less effective than using a USB-out for your DAC implementations.
5. Are there any other caveats I would need to know to move over to this combo Mac/PC environment? I must say that flexibility might even be worth the few hundred dollar premium.....
Gang,Yes the new Core Duo 2's are out now.
As for memory... this is what I found. Buy the cheap MAC then do this. It took me less than 20 minutes:
1) On ebay buy 2 1GB memory strips, I think I paid like $100
2) On eBay buy a 120gb or a 160gb SATA 2.5" driveOk power up the unit to make sure it works. Then before doing any install press the power button until it shuts down.
remove the power plug and battery. You can then get to the L bracket holding the drive and the memory in. Popem out and put in the new the same way.
YA done.... it runs much better with 2GB of memory.
On a related note: is it just as easy to replace memory on an iMac? And do they use the same memory strips? What I might do is buy a MacBook (the new ones have 1GB standard), purchase 2GB on eBay, put the 2GB into the MacBook and use the 1GB (probably 2 512MB strips) from the MacBook and install them into another iMac that I have.I would be much obliged if anyone could tell me if this is possible....
OK, I'll confess that this left me a little confused. Some questions:1. These are instructions for adding more memory and a bigger hard drive for the *MacBook*, correct?
2. I take it that the Mac Book has two avavilable memory slots?
3. When you talked about adding a bigger hard drive, is this *in place of* or *in addition to* the existing system drive? I can understand *in addition to*, but you can't sub out the exsiting system disc without the replacement disc having the OS installed.
Thanks for clarifying these issues,
David,Yes these are upgrades to the basic system that comes in with 512M and 60gb.
It is in place of for both memory and disk.
The memory for best results should be the same type for each slot. Otherwise the memory controller will resort to fussing because of being unbalanced.
I just put the 60dB sata in one of those $39 enclosures and used it for back up.
Memory I got gobs of sims right now.
Thanks
Gordon
J. Gordon Rankin
dburna -Get as much RAM as you can afford. More is more, and RAM remains the key to maximizing the performance of any computer. Plus one of the real joys of OS X is that you can keep as many apps open all the time as you like to use - with the exception of a few very memory intensive things like PShop, Aperture etc - in which case you want as much RAM as you can get anyhow. Once you get the Mac you might want to use the free browser, mail, calendar, address book, all the iLife products etc etc
1Gb has to be considered a bare minimum - running both OSes I would opt for at least 2Gb
Hard drive is a bit different with many more variables to consider like how much of the time you will be on AC vs off the grid, how much you really want/need to store and carry around, what other gear you have, back-up plans etc. In assessing your needs allocate 5-10Gb to systems and applications - in that light, 80Gb is a goodly amount of storage - if you spend a little time to manage it - like moving things off the laptop when you do back-ups etc
At any rate drives get cheaper every day and are easy to replace assuming you keep the boot disk LOL
BTW I have had very good results with the Toslink out of my G5 tower, though that is a full size connector and I used a top of the line cable. Audioengr knows whereof he speaks and has done extensive testing but worst simply means that of the available choices, not awful...
A newer version of the MacBook is scheduled to come out before the holiday season. The Pro has already been updated 2 weeks ago to the new Intel 2 Duo processors (note the added 2 inbetween). The newer processors are supposed to be 30% faster than the original Intel Duo.Also, judging from the Pro, the new Macbook might come with more memory and harddrive from the start. I have been waiting for a month for these to come...my small Powerbook G4 is dying (spilled Coke on it :(
Here is some info on the new Macbooks:
Be aware - once you switch to Apple....
Rene
Die gefährlichste Weltanschauung ist die Weltanschauung derjenigen, die die Welt nicht angeschaut haben.
Alexander von Humboldt (1769-1859)
Hmmmmm.....this is intriguing. I'm even starting to think that perhaps I don't need a laptop and can get by with a desktop iMac unit. It looks like these already have the new Core 2 Duo processors and I could get more memory and disk drive standard.Something to think about....
Take a look at the Apple website:The $1299 model sports the new Intel 2 Duo processors, 1GB of memory and the 80GB harddrive standard. Upgrading to 2GB of memory is "only" $175 more.
Am I glad I did not buy the older version of the Macbook last month.I guess I will be placing an order soon :)
Rene
Die gefährlichste Weltanschauung ist die Weltanschauung derjenigen, die die Welt nicht angeschaut haben.
Alexander von Humboldt (1769-1859)
The price on the new Macbook should be quite competitive even with the new iMac. Also, the MacBook makes for a very nice "remote", making access to music files more convenient.Both are very nice machines though. I hope the Macbook comes out this week, though.
Rene
Die gefährlichste Weltanschauung ist die Weltanschauung derjenigen, die die Welt nicht angeschaut haben.
Alexander von Humboldt (1769-1859)
some answers:You can purchase a Macbook with a 120 GB drive. I don't see any problem with installing a larger drive (I think you can get 160GB 2.5" drives now) or waiting until even larger sizes come out
About the memory, I just got a Macbook with 512MB and with OSX I think it is OK for doing simple things. With XP I would guess that 1GB or 2 would be much more enjoyable!
Gordon, Why XP instead of OS X?
Hi!
I can't answer all of your questions, but I know that the Airport Express must use iTunes, and iTunes converts all music to Apple Lossless format when useing AIrTunes to stream music.
I'm sorry to hear this also. Lack of open system compatability is an anathema (sp?) in the computer industry in the 21st Century. To me, this is another example of Apple's head-in-the-sand approach to marketing w.r.t. to interoperability. And I'm not simply an "Apple basher," just like there are also people who bash PCs for different reasons.I own both types of machines. I try to look at each set of offerings in their best light and appreciate each for its representative strengths. IMO, this area of forced incompatibility (lack of compliance with open standards) is the chief stumbling block preventing Apple from becoming an all-around stellar technology company, iPods or no iPods. It's inconceivable that almost 30 years of bleeding forheads from the Apple marketing department while they beat their head against the market-dominant PC world hasn't taught anyone high up in the food chain a darned thing.
There's nothing wrong/unforgiveable with making a mistake -- the tragedy is in learning nothing from that mistake. Oh well, I guess my Airport Express can still prevent papers from flying rampant around my house......
Y Can't Apple Reed?,
dB:
I agree with many of your points, but where I disagree (mind you, I'm a PC-user) is that they consider themselves successful with the way their more recent products have performed in the marketplace.Their iPods have plenty of problems (durability is one), yet they continue to sell out everywhere.
The AE is a great product but for the software limitations. Add USB audio output and an open format and it would be perfect.
In their view, they tie everything together to increase usage of other product. For instance, if you have an ipod, you have to use itunes. This bumps up itunes usage. If you use itunes, you have to use airtunes/the airport express (and vice versa). This bolsters usage of both products.
Anyway, I think we're saying the same ting here. I'm happy with itunes, personally, but I wish I have a digital output (RCA/optical or USB) that I could use in my system.
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