|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
75.215.4.102
In Reply to: I have the Ancerl 1966 LP and radio broadcast from the 80's on this work posted by docw on May 7, 2007 at 16:04:51:
The horns were OK. Not as articulate as they once were. The brass, as I heard it on that broadcast, may have been a tad "top heavy". (A common trait with American orchestras. The trumpet plays the soft parts too loud.)The new Cleveland sound kind of reminds me of how the Boston Symphony sounded during Ozawa's tenure. I saw the Boston Symphony in concert at Severance Hall. Performed Beethoven's First Symphony and Stravinsky's "Firebird". (People tell me my long-term memory is disgusting.) Two months after experiencing Cleveland do the "Firebird". The main difference being the Boston performance was the full ballet score while Cleveland did the abridged Suite. What struck me, at the time, was what I later learned was "phrasing" and dynamics. Boston had a more "muscular" sound (more like Chicago), was louder, but Cleveland was more dynamic and variation in tonal color. (Several weeks later, an usher at a the BSO concert thought Boston was tuned "sharper" than Cleveland.)
I also recall the Boston having a "split" violin arrangement, with the second violins on the right, playing into the "shell." It was not that popular at the time, like it seems to be now. Cleveland later adopted this arrangement in the midst of Dohnanyi's tenure, and it's been that way ever since. (Welser Moest once said he'd return to the old arrangement, but apparently that never happened.) I personally like the second violins behind the first violins, because the choirs are more distinctive. The chords formed by the strings don't sound as convincing or cohesive in the "split" arrangement, and the second violins almost sound like they're missing altogether. But I've been told that the split sections are preferred in better halls. (Cleveland changed the arrangement around 1992 if I recall. It had nothing to do with the renovation.)
Follow Ups:
Even C = 256 (A = 440) is higher than earlier historical precedent, and many orchestras commonly tune to A = 448. Von Karajan reputedly tuned to A = 452!
Back in the days of vinyl, speed variations made it almost impossible to pick out. I got an email several years ago from someone telling me the Cleveland Orchestra tunes sharper than it once did.I personally did not listen for it at the BSO concert. I wasn't aware of this until that discussion with the usher.
Another interesting aspect of this is trumpeter Adelstein, who personally abhorred playing "sharp" relative to the orchestra, where Bud Herseth did so all the time. And that was one thing I *was* able to discern. (It was apparent in those two openings of Mussorgsky's "Pictures" I posted here a while back.) I thought Herseth's sharp tuning became disconcerting at times.
it seems Cleveland may survive as one of the best in the world, even in spite of these changes. Judging on one concert is less than ideal.Violins are seated as per European way, as opposed to American way, to "bring out" the 2nd voices and counterpoints, etc. That's what I understood in the past.
Did Bernard Adelstein once play in Minneapolis with Antal Dorati?I was checking out some samples on Amazon, and.....
It sure sounds like Adelstein..... Nobody else plays like this.....
- http://www.amazon.com/gp/music/wma-pop-up/B000AC5AZI001018/ref=mu_sam_wma_001_018/104-2016250-8288711 (Open in New Window)
great ears, sir. I have been looking around for just such an example. Reiner Pittsburg, Dorati Dallas then Minneapolis, then back to his home town, Cleveland appointed by Szell.I have a patient who played with him in Pittsburg and at that time, they knew Maazel. She was the first oboe, also as a teen. Went to school with Lorin. Her great quote, "he (Reiner) never yelled at me."
"Violins are seated as per European way, as opposed to American way"I didn't realize they were classified as such. Which is which, may I ask? I'd guess the "European" is the "split" arrangement, because I think Vienna also uses the "split" arrangement..... I never really observed this until recent time.....
from any of the great Europeans, such as VPO or BPO. Cellos center, violins on the side. Maazel had the cellos right with Geber always on that seat with Majeske on the lead concertmaster seat. I heard Cleveland many times at Severance, same. You posted they changed in 1992.I think that there are advantages to each. Since you turned me on to these videos, I now post one (see others!) from a lovely Sarah Chang. go to Meditation, also.
I was so fixated on the soloist, I didn't notice the seating arrangement of the musicians...... [-;
I thought you might like that.I think she's a very winsome and beautiful rep for classical music and I am proud as a fellow Asian of such a young child prodigy and artist, now 26 and "grown up."
Pic from first cd release when she was young. God given talent, but also nurture and hard work.
| ||||||||||||
|
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors: