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I try to get to "know" every genre of music, and I really do like most of them. I enjoy classical music, but I can't seem to be able to pick out the good pieces out of the massive array of classical scores out there.So i was wondering if anyone knew about some really emotional, or powerful pieces of classical music. To me, that's all that music is-emotion.
Here's an idea of what I like:
Samuel barber - Adagio for Strings - really the kind of thing I am looking for
Pachelbel - Canon - this too
Faure - Pavane
Mussorgsky - Night on Bald Mountain
Beethoven's Ninth Symphony - although it is a bit...too stately. Not really into the chamber music thing. Maybe a more...epic piece.Oh by the way, hello. I'm new to these forums :)
Follow Ups:
About 7-8 years ago I was in the same boat. I didn't know a sonata from a hole in the ground. At least now I know andante has nothing to do with with cooking pasta.Here are two links that may help with some of the terminology and concepts, along with some recommended recordings as well.
http://www.classical.net/music/
http://w3.rz-berlin.mpg.de/cmp/classmus.html
Hope it helps
Thanks for the links and advice, I have already bookmarked both pages.Fortunately, I do play trumpet and know a few musical terms...but not many.
Like I think andante means fast. But as for part of an opera or symphony...no clue. Maybe the fast part. I don't know.
I think it helps to get at least a little background bio on the composers, and even some of the conductors at some point. Also the liner notes on many recordings often give a little insight into the music or the "programme" such as Beethoven's 6th (Pastoral) describing a walk in the country, the thunderstorm, etc. or Berlioz's Symphonie Fantastique (sp?) with the acid trip, meeting the girl at the ball, killing her, the death sentence and the dance of the witches. (some of this stuff can be pretty cool). Sometimes it does get a little technical, but I try to get what I can from it.It will take a little time and *a lot* of listening. You will have to learn to listen differently than you may be used to. I've read, and believe, that people listen to music on three levels. Physical, emotional, and analytical. Physical is sort of like just groovin' to the rhythm, tapping your feet and bobbing your head, etc. Listening at the emotional level, you start to form mental pictures, remember past events, feel happy or sad or whatever. Much easier to do with songs that have lyrics than just with music alone. Programme music, such as tone poems, try to make the listener think of a particular subject or story with just musical notes. At the analytical level, you listen to the structure of the music, notice the differences in performances and such. Sort of getting into the nuts and bolts of the music. It us supposedly the highest level, but it does not mean the other two are less valid or valuable. Most people do not spend their whole time at one level and often go back and forth. Me, not being a trained musician, I spend a lot of time at the emotional level, with only brief excursions into the analytical. Hell, sometimes I just like to hear a nice melody and wave my hands around like a conductor (when no one is around).
Listen to a lot of opinions, then decide what you like, for whatever reasons you want, and enjoy the music. There have been some here (I am thinking of one in particular, whom many will remember by various monikers, but am afraid to name for fear he may return if he isn't banned for life) who ridicule those who don't match their knowledge (and they will let you know they are very knowledgeable)or mirror their opinions. Then again, there are those (again, I am thinking of one in particular, who sadly will not be returning) who will argue with a passion, bordering on fury, for or against a conductor or composer, or performance, but will not attack you for liking what you do. (Well come to think of it, if bitten, he would bite back.:-))
Neil
Ahh Robbie my friend, I do sometimes miss the the... umm...spice, you used to add to the discussions here.
What an interesting theory...I think I myself tend to delve into the emotional level quite a bit more...and Adagio for Strings and "Symphony of Sorrowful Songs" both seem to be tone poems, because I always think back to some sort of memory...or imagine something that fits the music...It also explains why those two pieces are always played on war movies or something like that.
I couldn't put my hands on it right now, but the idea was expressed in Aaron Copland's book "What to Listen for in Music." I did a quick search at Amazon.com and saw that he refers to it as the sensuous plane, the expressive plane, and the sheerly musical plane. The terminology I used was a little different, but is also referred to in a book titled "Flow: The Psychology of Optimal Experience" by Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi (don't ask me to pronounce it, it was all I could do to spell it correctly). He calls it the sensory stage, the analogic stage, and analytic stage, but the concept is basically the same. He goes on to talk about how as we get more "into" the music we experience what he calls "flow", similar to athletes who are in the "zone". Also, while listening to music may help us achieve "flow" it is even better if we create music by playing it. That's where I come up short. I don't play an instrument and I can't carry a tune in a bucket.In a nutshell, I am a classic case of "I don't know much, but I know what I like."
That's what music is for, right? For people to like it?
Regarding,
"Samuel barber - Adagio for Strings - really the kind of thing I am looking for
Pachelbel - Canon - this too
> These 2 works are sometimes mated on the same LP/CD. They are considered standard works, and heard to often at funerals and weddings, respectively. The point is that Tallis and Bach selections are mated on the discs. Oft cited good versions are the Stuttgart chamber or Academy of St. Martin's in the Fields/Marriner renditions.Faure - Pavane
> Amongst older performances, Munch BSO is very goodMussorgsky - Night on Bald Mountain
> SACD or CD of Maazel/Cleveland and Reiner/ChicagoBeethoven's Ninth Symphony - although it is a bit...too stately. Not really into the chamber music thing. Maybe a more...epic piece.
> Hmmm, I don't know what you mean. What more epic a piece than this symphony, with it's Herculean intro, vigorous scherzo, mysterious and deep profound adagio 3rd and the huge last movement??? This isn't chamber music, unless you own the HIP type with pseudo historical instrument performances (Goodmans or Norrington's, for example). I don't know what you own, but there are plenty of good ones discussed here in the recent past even.
Try the 3rd symphony Eroica, or the 7th symphony and the 6th symphony Pastoral of Beethoven. Try large scaled Brahms works like 1st and 2nd symphonies and his Tragic and Academic Festival Overtures. Schumann's Rhenish symphony #3. Schubert 8th symphony and 9th symphony. Wagner Overtures and for intimate string work, Siegfried Idyll. Grieg Holberg suite and Dvorak's stuff Serenades and symphonies 6 to 9. Do you have Berlioz' Symphonie Fantastique or Tchaikovsky's 4-6th symphonies? Or Richard Strauss' Don Juan and other tone poems? Stravinsky's Firebird Suite and Petrouchka are accessible, as his Pulcinella for chamber orchestra.
I guess what I meant about Beethoven's Ninth was...the fact that although It would start off very mysterious and deep, then it would be gone, replaced by a mental picture of an Old English Castle Courtyard.Of course the theme at the beginning is very good, and it does return...although not without the other sort entwined...I didn't say I didn't like it, but it is difficult to stay into a piece when it releases your sense of awe with a bit of "noble dance style" tucked in between the great parts.
But maybe that is the way with classical music...or perhaps it takes a trained ear to recognize the value in the parts I seem to get turned off by.
As for being chamber music...well, I don't know what I meant by that :) I think I may have been thinking of the wrong piece when I said that...the thing I am listening to now is not chamber music.
Unless my perception of the definition of "Chamber Music" is skewed (a valid possibility).
I have Berlioz' Symphony Fantastique...or at least part of it. I think it is the 3rd part...not very...stimulating.I am working with a jumbled collection of music, so I have a lot of music files, but I haven't been able to listen to them all.
As for tone poems...no idea even what they are, much less having them...or being able to identify them if I did.I have several Tchaikovsky works...The Nutcracker, 1812 overture (didn't mention, but a good song, as most would say). However I don't think I have his symphonies that you mentioned...
Thanks for all the advice and recommendations,
All that other stuff.........after Beethoven, Moart, Bach, Mahler, etc...the 20th and 21st century is packed with exciting new composers. A good friend of mine gave me some music by Krenek and it opened up a few doors that until then, I didn't know existed. It's a continuim....from Gregorian chant.........to whatever.Don't get me wrong. I'm crazy enough to have over 150 recordings of Beethoven's 32 piano sonatas!
Enjoy, Tom B.
You seem to lack a grasp of the structure of these pieces. I am not putting you down, just hoping to help.There are forms in European classical music. The earlier music has distinct structure. For instance, many late 1700 (Haydn and Mozart) and 19th century symphonies have 4 movements often beginning with a slow intro, followed by a main theme, then a secondary theme or motif, weaving in and out followed by a coda or conclusion. (look up "sonata form"). Following is either a slow movement which is lyrical and quieter, then a dance or march like part, followed by a faster last movement. I taught my young child regarding the usual 4 movements, "Fast, slow song, dance then Fast." Without learning the whole thing, one gets only a partial understanding of the composer's intent.
I've never heard Beethoven's 9th described that way! Did you know that the 4th movement begins with a repetition of the leading theme in movements 1 through 3, instrumentally, then there is a short intro to the 4th movement's theme, the Ode to Joy, which has the whole orchestra and the chorus?
Just keep on studying and learning, that's my encouragement. My wife says that after she lived with the better gear and listening with me for about 2 years, she's starting to hear much more. Prior to that, she only recognized tunes, but now is beginning to hear and appreciate the different approaches to a Beethoven symphony by different conductors and orchestras.
"You seem to lack a grasp of the structure of these pieces"Hit the nail on the head :)
I am a bit of a novice concerning classical musical form...although this little tidbit explains quite a bit...
Being used to single songs with one theme, adapting to this form will be quite a challenge...
I just know what sounds good and what doesn't...at least on my untrained ear.
I have listened to "classical" for over 40 years since I was a youngster preteen. I have no where near exhausted even limited symphonic works. I do have some favorites and collect different versions.
...they're great, but I was thinking that, back in the day, most of them were a little beyond me as someone just starting out. For me, strophic music (with an A theme then a B theme, repeated etc.; was much easier to grasp than through-composed music, like Scriabin or Mahler for instance.) My humble picks:Grieg: Piano Concerto
Tchaikovsky: Romeo and Juliet Overture
Prokofiev: Alexander Nevsky
Prokofiev: Romeo and Juliet
Wagner: Overtures and Preludes
Falla: Nights in the Gardens of Spain coupled with Rodrigo Guitar Conc
Albeniz: Iberia Orchestrated
Williams: Star Wars/Close Encounters (Mehta/LAPO London)
Grofe: Grand Canyon Suite
Respighi: Pines/Fountains/Festivals of Rome
So there is a word for that!maybe that is what I am looking for...Barber's Adagio seemed to have quite a bit of that...except it was more of a theme throughout...
I'm a little buzzed, but yes, Barber's Adagio kind-of has a "theme," it's that famous suspension that opens the piece and keeps re-appearing, but it seamlessly morphs while building to a climax. Strophic music, (in other words with themes repeated so often that they can be assign an "A" or a "B") is a little more clear cut, like, um...Beethoven's "Fur Elise."
Williams I recognize...I didn't put him on my list, but I enjoyed the Star Wars theme...the new as well as the old. The new seems more...dark.
Bernstein/New York Phil or Maazel/Vienna or Neeme Jarvi on the BIS label...you will be STUNNED by the power and the beauty!:-). If you can't find those, Ashkenazy and Karajan are other great choices.
These are some recommendations of music that I find emotional, or powerful, or both.Bruckner - Symphony #9 (Many folk find #8 his greatest, I find it tooo lomg.)
Mahler Synphony #6. Most all of Mahler fits your requirement, both emotional and powerful. Most highly recommended and it can become addictive!
Shostakovich Sym #5. Grim (emotional) and powerful.
Faure - Requiem in original version by Herreweghe, or in his next recording with slightly expanded forces and an accompaning Symphony in B minor by Frank, both in excellent performances. These recordings of the Faure requiems are the finest I've heard. The are very intimate.
Sibelius Sym #4. #2 is more popular, upbeat and beautiful, but I've never tired of #4.
Rachmaninoff - Symphonic Dances. Powerful - great demo stuff like Mussorgsky, but very different.
Rachmaninoff - Symphony #2 - the ultimate romantic, big symphony.R Strauss - Death and Transfiguration
R Strauss - Alpine SymphonyElgar Cello Concerto - reminds me of Barber Adagio, mood wise.
Hope that helps a bit.
It helps quite a bit, thank you!These lists give me places to start, rather than sifting through hundreds of Mozart, Beethoven, and the like to find maybe 1 or 2 good symphonies...
Some great recommendations from Neil.Some obvious next steps:
More Barber: Violin Concerto and Essay No. 1 for Orchstra.
Mussorgsky: Pictures at an Exhibition
Beethoven: Symphonies Nos. 5 & 7Some other works, mixing it up a bit:
Vaughan Williams: Symphony No. 5
Elgar: Enigma Variations
Falla: El amor brujo
Ravel: Concerto in D for Left Hand
Rimsky-Korsakov: Scheherezade
Bartok: Piano Concerto No. 3
Gorecki: Symphony No. 3
Prokofiev: Violin Concerto No. 2; Romeo & Juliet
Janacek: Sinfonietta
Villa Lobos: Bachianas Brasilieras No. 5
Revueltas: SensamayaFor chamber music, I think the combination of piano, violin and cello is one of the easiest to get into:
Tchaikovsky: Piano Trio
Beethoven: "Archduke" Trio
Schubert: Piano Trio No. 2
Shostakovich: Piano Trio No. 2
...but for pure emotion Gorecki's Symphony No. 3 "Symphony of Sorrowful Songs" is THE one. Gorecki's tribute to those imprisoned in the German concentration camps. Get the one with Dawn Upshaw.It may not be the greatest work ever written, and perhaps it just caught me at the right time, but I've never been moved more by a piece of music.
Neil
I have Gorecki's Symphony No 3 (with Upshaw). I have listened to it a number of times but don't find myself moved by it at all. Maybe I would if I spoke Polish, dunno. However I will persevere. Admittedly I might take a good many listenings over a period of years to get into something: I'm finally starting to see the point of Beethoven's late string quartets.
Bill Bailey
___________________________________________
See my stereo config
enthusiastic about it. GOOD FOR YOU! Passion -- true passion instead of some over-intellectualized pseudo-superiority rant -- is very refreshing. For me, the one recording that pulls me apart EVERY time I hear it is the Durufle Requiem conducted by Matthew Best on Hyperion. Both of the vocal soloists, Ann Murray and Thomas Allen, are tear-my-heart out gorgeous...deep and powerful and painfully lamenting (just like Upshaw in G.3). Consider this a recommendation based on your enthusiasm!
Talk about the Poodle calling the Hairdressgay gay, LOL: who was it comparing Bruckner and Rothko the other day? : )
I'm sure I could over-intellectualize Gorecki also! Of course, the OP actually DIDN'T do that. To the point of some other recent threads about "drawing in new listeners to Classical music", it's important that that type of "pure, raw experience" can still happen, even among the experienced listeners. As much as I like to learn and be taught by others, there comes (sometimes) a point of over-analyzing and burnout to the technical stuff. But, as in my little Bruckner analogy, there is also much that is NOT experienced when taking a straight-ahead look at something that can be viewed in multiple ways. Ah, but when the two perspectives come together....
I just got this song: and it was very goodI think that if music doesn't move you in some way, then it really has no purpose...at least that is the way I listen to music, rather than to just fill the ears with a jumble of pitches and rhythms...
"I think that if music doesn't move you in some way, then it really has no purpose..."The tricky part is: often throughout my listening years I've been abslolutely *not* moved by a piece, then years late it suddenly clicked. This has happened Stravinsky's Rite, for instance.
Another interesting issue is simplicity. Is a piece greater for its complexity and lesser for its simplicity? Mozart often outlines a major 5th to great effect, (such as the 2nd mov't of the 21st Piano Concerto or the opening of Eine Kleine Nachtmusik), then we have Bruckner, some call him elemental, I'm not sure if he pulls it off, but I'll keep trying. Ives' purposeful cacaphony still sets my teeth on edge, even on Lp, lol. I'm beginning to enjoy Beethoven sublimely for the first time, thanks to exploring older recordings of Walter and Furtwangler, but, alas, Haydn--after 20 years--doesn't do much for me on a deep level, and neither does Mozart, yet they are considered towering geniuses.
Sure a piece can be complex or simple...as long as it fulfills its purpose.Like for instance: Barber's Adagio for Strings is just one set of notes in the exact same pattern over and over again...but I consider it to be an extremely emotional piece.
However, I liked Beethoven's Ninth Symphony and Mozart's Requiem: Lacrimosa very well also...although to a lesser extent.
I know what you mean about not getting the emotion out of a bit of music from the first time listening to it. Oftentimes I buy a CD for one specific part or song...and end up getting tired of that one song and loving several others, after many listen-throughs.
although there are exceptions, such as Mahler's huge Das Lied (the song) von der Erde (of the Earth) or German lieder (songs) for voice and piano by such composers as Schubert, Schumann or Wolf.
Hehe, I knew it didn't sound right...
Remember you are talking to the guy who you might find listening to classical or jazz music as much as modern rock.Most of the classical music that I have listened to up until now has been in a singular 5-10 minute clip - not a half-hour to hour long symphony.
but for digital, I never investigated. These are so-called highlights and can feature various classical periods (baroque, rococo, classical, Romantic, etc.) and I am certain these highlights or even like my LP's (called theme finders) are out there. Wedding music cd's are often just that, mere compilations of classical tunes. Often get these for under $5 total on amazon used vendors. Check site below.
I have a couple of wedding cd's...that's where I got the Pachelbel Canon (Kanon?) and a few others...Trumpet Voluntary (I play the trumpet myself, is why this stood out)I just listened to two versions of Gorecki Symphony No. 3 "Symphony of Sorrowful Songs" It is almost an hour long...but I drank in every minute of it...Now I have to debate on which version to get (It was a friend's music)-Dawn Upshaw singing soprano, London Sinfonietta with David Zinman conducting, or the Szymanowski Philharmonic Orchestra version, Cracow (I think Cracow would be the conductor, but I am not sure)
Either way that was definitely a good suggestion/find.
Makes it even better knowing it was written in memory of the Holocaust...
The Cracow Philharmonic is named for Karol Szymanowski ("Karol Szymanowski State Philharmonic Orchestra"). Cracow is the city in Poland, from whence the orchestra originates in the 2nd recording (linked).The Upshaw recording is oft mentioned. She was found to have cancer, if I am not mistaken.
If you play the trumpet, what genre? Jazz, pop and/or classical? There is plenty of wonderful trumpet stuff for classical.
I play...well whatever comes around. But mostly Jazz and Classical...I also play in a Community Band, which plays a lot of Patriotic music...combined with big band scores...an odd arrangement, but it works.But I tend to like to play Jazz more than most things...classical trumpet is a bit...dry. The improvisation and odd rhythms and bluesy, soulful just get to me. Jazz can be both fun and sad...its hard to explain.
Jazz I guess is more...raw. Less refined. Simpler, yet gets its point across through lyrics that play on your humor, as well as tell a story.
Like I said, it's hard to explain.
"Cracow is the city in Poland"
That explains a lot. I always thought it was a sound birds make.
Didn't mean to double post, but just to clarify:I have never been able to play in an orchestral or symphony arrangement...so I have never been able to REALLY play classical trumpet with a decent...what I meant by classical trumpet I guess was the baroque stuff I generally play...in small ensembles and the like.
I imagine I would like the exciting way trumpets can be utilized in some pieces...but I still like jazz more.
Here are two links to threads on the subject that were helpful to me. It covers a wide rage of styles and periods, but I'd say check some of them out at the local library and see what you like, then look for specific performances. You can ask about favorite performances, but be prepared to be overwhelmed with responses, each with their own favorite. I'd do my homework first and "Search the Archives" (tm Jorge F)http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.mpl?forum=music&n=14542&highlight=newbie+list&r=&session=
http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.mpl?forum=music&n=25588&highlight=newbie+list&r=&session=
Some Ralph Vaughan Williams: "The Lark Ascending" and a few other things.The Dvorak and Elgar cello concertos are nice too
So much music, so much emotion, so little time.
based on your list may I suggest:Stravinsky - Firebird Suite
Holst - the Planets
Wagner - Orchestral excerpts
Rachmaninoff - Symphony No. 2 and Piano Concerto No. 2
Sibelius - Symphonies 2,7 and Finlandia
Dvorak - Symphony No.9 "New World"
Tchaikovsky - Violin Concerto; Symphonies 4,5,6
Beethoven - Violin Concerto
Mendelssohn - Violin Concerto
Shostakovich - Symphony No. 5
Bruckner and Mahler may be a little much for someone starting out, but maybe Bruckner Symphony #4 or #9 and Mahler #1I know I'll think of more later, but it's late and I'm about to nod off and bang my head on the keyboard.
The way I found this site was through an archived thread about something similar...but I wanted to make the query a bit more specific...In fact, I have already looked up Holst's The Planets, and I'm sure I have Beethoven and Tchaikovsky's Violin Concertos around here somewhere...
I like all the feedback, it gives me a broad range of places to look, without any single-mindedness about it. And without having to look through every symphony since the 16th century.
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