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In Reply to: I like above opinions, but tell us more clearly why... posted by docw on April 8, 2007 at 08:53:02:
Thanks for your posting. Its a good question, and I really prefer (which I didn't do) to explore why people like particularl performances. Before I answer the specific question, let me tell you a little how I judge Beethoven performances with an example. I was in my car listening to the last movement of Beethoven's fifth on the radio. As I was listening, I was struck by the transparency of the sturcture of the movement with no loss of the excitement. That performance was by Gunter Wand, and was what led me to his performances of other Beethoven (I had already liked Wand in some of his Bruckner).
Lenny's Vienna Philharmonic performances have a touch more excitement than Wand, but they also preserve the clariy of Beethovens musical structures. There is a recording of Lenny discussing the first movement of Beethoven's fifth, where he discusses discarded sketches, and indicates why Beethoven discarded some of the sketches. The VPO performances capture that sense without losing the excitement. I would say the same also applies to Szell. WIth KJlemperer, the structures are even more transparent, but at some cost in terms of the druve that is also so important in beethoven.
Harnoncourt - to be fair, i have not listened to much of his Beethoven, my opinion is based mainly on his recordings of other works. I got two recent Harnoncourt recordings based on Grammaphone raves. I got his Bruckner Eighth, which struck me as nothing wrong, but rather pedestrian. For Bruckner eight for me, the first movement needs some gentleness also, to my mind Bruckner is also the heir of Schubert. Much worse in my mind was Harnoncourt's Dvorak ninth - I find that he makes tempo choices and emphases that distort the music. its really the only way I can put it. One sees what is in the music, but to my mind, Harnoncourt sometimes shows off the music in a funhouse mirror. ( I alos feel the Celebidache does that also).
Lennie can do these sorts of distortions also - a recording of Sibelius second comes to mind. Very exciting, but a recording of extremes. I have recently gotten the late Mahler set by Lennie, and plan on spending some time with it, but I really haven't been in a Mahler mood lately. Actually, my listeniing of late has been a lot of Beethoven piano sonatas (especially the Kempff, but also the Silverman set). I hope this helps. I have no musical training at all, so everything I write is based on my listening impressions.
Follow Ups:
If you like Bernstein in this music you should opt for the first set with the NYPO on Sony, in place of the slow-and-mannered VPO readings.For real entertainment try the 1953 Lenny Eroica with the "Stadium Symphony" and the 1959 7th with the NYPO (LP only), a truly wild ride through the score.
similarly, without musical training, except over 40 years of listening. I have Harnoncourt's live Beethoven set from 1990, highly reviewed. His distortions there seem not as significant. I like but don't love his set.VPO/Bernstein--I have 3rd, 7th and Overtures on LP. Very good set, but the Eroica is too slow, invented emphasis compared to some others I own. I love the Schmidt Isserstedt with VPO and Szell/Clev.
There are two that work very well for me, a mono Horenstein and Klemperer. Lennie's third with the VPO seemed to me to have promise, but I've only listened to it once.
I recently listened and reviewed in my mind the Szell/Clev., Szell/Bayreuth/Czech Phil, some of Bernstein/VPO (confess, need to relisten to LP) and must listen to mono Klemp, stereo Klemp, Szell SACD version/Clev., Dohnanyi/Clev. LP, and so on. I must review again Reiner's mono LP and others.But the one I got in my head was Schmidt-Isserstedt cd coupled on Weekend Classics London with the Egmont music (excerpts) by Szell all with VPO. Fast, but not HIP fast. Powerful beautiful sound. Fat London type, with articulation and detail still there, but with a bit of tape hiss remaining for the purists. :)
I have been in a project and covered 11 Beethoven 5ths thus far.
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