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Mates,As it's J.S. Bach's birthday- 257 years old but as fresh as ever, I'm celebrating by playing his music all day. Sorry to digress to audio content a moment, but a couple of days ago, I reorganised the office system to spend more time with a McIntosh MR77 in my home tuner trials: Revox B160 (1988), McIntosh MR67 (1965) and McIntosh MR77 (1974) and simultaneously I put the Cambrisge Audio 640C CD player on the "direct" input of the Audio Research LS3. Something happened in this minor reordering/cleaning and for some reason the MR77 and the 640C sound better than I 've ever heard them- is it that I cut 10' out of each speaker cable?
But back to Bach. I'm a lifelong fan of Bach. I rememebr as a tiny tot sitting under my father's 1923 Steinway "A" while he played Bach and as a teenager I thought Bach's Fantasy and Fugue in Gmin was the greatest piece ever written. I built a harpsichord kit when I was 15 and wanted to be a harpsichord builder before making the mistake of studying architecture.
But, in the twilight of my life, I realised that after hearing so much Bach, I still had not heard everything he'd written. Bach is like any composer, even with the works of geniuses, not everything rises to popularity and over the years as I've pursued the complete works of composers whose music I really like, I don't feel I 've done my duty by them until I hear everything. There are, in this process- always "discoveries" for me- and not only of academic interest, but also many previously unknown jewels. As a keyboard fanatic, I have the complete keyboard work sets of William Byrd- a great 7 CD set by Moroney, Rameau- Scott Ross, J.J. Froberger- one of my favourites-by Richard Egarr, Francois Couperin by Kenneth Gilbert, Buxtehude organ, and Sweelinck. I'm working on the complete Scarlatti Sonatas by Belder, having about 1/3 of the 550. I also have the complete lute works of John Dowland by Paul O'Dette and as you may know, the lute as a contrapuntal instrument of a large range, was influential in 16th and 17th Century keyboard composition.
With Bach, many keyboard works were teaching pieces- the "Clavieruebung" or "keyboard practice", and Bach had a unique way of making these teaching pieces, exciting enough to stimulate and encourage students to work them out. The two and three part inventions and the Well-Tempered Clavier are examples of great works that wrew really designed to make students learn technique, ornamentation, and expression. Many of these are familiar works, but how many here know the "Vier Duetten" (4 Duets) usually palyed on organ? These are just wonderful bump and grind, chromatic and dynamic pieces, but rarely broadcast or programmed in recitals.
With all this in mind, I jumped at what I see as one of the greatest bargain purchases of my life- the 155- CD set of the complte works of J.S. Bach on Brilliant Classics. The astounding thing is that this comprehensive set includes all the haprsichord , organ, chamber, sacred vocal, and - there are 60 CDs of the Cantatas and a few weeks ago n Amazon.com I bought this set for $107 shipping included. To save unnecessary arithmetic for you- that's $.70 per CD, which I find almost impossible! I was interested in that I recently finally found 4 Valvo blue label 6201s (12AT7) and the price of the complete works of Bach was exactly the same!
I've now heard all the organ and harpsichord, about half of the chamber, the Bmin Mass, and about 20 CAntatas. And lest you think thisis a slap dash set of discount performances, there are really fine performances and recordings in each category, some licensed from BIS and other European labels with generally good digital recordings from the late 80's and 90's.
The organ works are by Hans Fagius on historic organs in Scandanavia and Germany, and he's an appropriately energetic player with a very nice approach to registration that is more lively than the sometimes restrained German players like Walcha and especially Leonhart both of whom I like, but tend not to use tonal colour variety and terrace dynamics as much. Very nice and I've heard quite a few pieces I've either not heard or not remembered.
With harpsichord, most of the recordings are by Belder, who has a very good sense of pace and a refined technique. I really liked his Scarlatti and with those 550 pieces he doesn't just toss off the pieces that are less interesting or famous, but applies the same digilence consistently. Not as exciting as Igor Kipnis or Kirkpatrick, but does just fine and uses historic-based harpsichords. One of my harpsichord test pieces is the amazing hand-crossing "Fantasy in Cmin" and while Kirkpatrick is the king of that piece, Belder does really well and gives it the excitement it warrants. Another player on the set is Christiane Wuyts, who I didn't know before, but has great expression and plays on a 1754 Hemsch and 1774 Goerman, two fine French instruments. I've played the Hemsch (30 years ago) and these recordings- !988 Digipro Belgium- really does reproduce the unique timbre of that intrument which has a little bite- a tinge of the drier Italian style instrument- than the very lush Taskin/Couchet/Blanchet sound we hear most often. Her Capriccio BWV 992 is superb- a difficult piece with which to maintain coherence. Several discs are by Menno van Delft, who I met and heard in Italy, and has de facto taken over from Leonhardt at the Amsterdam Conserv. and Menno has a delightful, slightly playful style- actually more fun than his teacher. Menno is a fine clavichord player too and Bach advocated the clavichord as a way to improve expressivity. I should have liked it if this set had at least a few clavichord selections, as this was an important inmstrument to Bach, but one can't have everything!
The Chamber works are well done too, with several ensembles I didn't know, but who take them seriously.
The big scared choral works are pieces I have very high standards for and while the Bmin Mass is competent, I found some of these performances not as engaging, but this is only in comparison to the best examples of these. This is somewhat true of the Cantatas, of which I think there are about 200, but in my partial exploration of these, I 've heard some fantastic individual ones and the recordings have been good and some discs have very fine performers like Peter Schrier. I forget somtimes what wonderful works are the Cantatas- endlessly inventive and passionate. What would have happened if Bach had lived in the 19th Century and written operas?
I got a bit stuck on the keyboard works, hearing some pieces two and three times, so I'm still workng through, and by the Summer I expect I will have heard everything.
It's a kind of study and somewhat an academic exercise, but can there be more pleasant work?
Run, don't walk to your nearest Amazon.com and for the price of a pair of shoes, immerse yourself in some of the greatest music in history, satisfied that in your lifetime, nothing from this transcendental genius got away,..
And happy Birthday, Herr Bach! Sorry- now I feel I know you better than ever- may I call you "Johann"?
Cheers,
Bambi B
Follow Ups:
As to any box set, I can't imagine immersing myself in some record producer's chosen performances. Over the decades I have collected so many gems that I find most everything else way inferior. Ever hear Elisabeth Gruemmer sing Mein glauebiges Herze from Cantata 68? (Just for instance...) Or Glenn Gould playing the Partitas? Why would one want to go in search of completeness anyway?When WHRB played the complete Bach several years ago -- and what a time it was! -- not one selection to my knowledge came from a collected set, each was carefully chosen for musical merit.
Of course I'd say the same about Beethoven, Mahler, Sibelius.
Not lucrative, but fun. I still recommend Three Centuries to harpsichord enthusiasts today. It is still something of a definitive work.
Bung,I had no idea you were in the cembalo whittling biz- that's an increasingly rare occupation. - And yes, the hourly wage of even the best builders is quite low, even with the much higher prices now- it's just so labour intensive. There's a lot of parts!
I met Frank Hubbard once in the shop on Tremont St.(?) in Boston (1976 I think it was)- a brilliant fellow. What kind of person was he to work with and how long were you there? Did you continue with any kind of instrument making?
Go, Go - "go-bars" !
I have several friends- well three- which is a lot in the harpsichord world- who are all Dowd fanatics. Another friend has a "William Hyman" French double, which in reality was done by the Hubbard shop to satisfy orders for Hyman after he died. Hyman you may know was the designer of the Zuckeramnn French double. I spent a day in his Hoboken shop on the same trip to the US as when I met Frank Hubbard. He was the most demanding builder I ever met and was actually buyiung up his early instruments and destroying them! He made onlt 6 French doublees per year and whe I was there he was building one for Albert Fuller. Rapheal Puyana was another Hyman devotee. It was a pity and a loss to music when Hyman died so young- and needlessly really. He neglected to take medication for a kidney ailment and went unconscious while driving in Connecticut.
I used to pester harpsichord builders whenever I could- all over the place- Adlam and Burnett in England, David Rubio and so on. I saw Derek Adlam in Italy in 1993 and he is no longer building- too bad too. And he's a very fine clavichordist as well.
Yes,and I agree, "Three Centuries of Harpsichord Making" by Hubbard is still, I feel, the best overall book on harpsichord building. Benefits of a Harvard education,...
Cheers,
I'm too young to have known him. I worked for Hubbard in the early 90's as part of an apprentice/journeyman phase of building several different types of instruments.I ultimately left the field all together, but I have supreme respect for the talented folks I met along the way.
x
Bambi -I, too, treasure my old, worn copy of Hubbard's book (met him in 1972--I was trying to broker a deal to import snakewood), but Ed Kottick's has now replaced it in every conceivable way (see link). Every harpsichord fan worth his or her salt should have a copy and read it cover-to-cover.
Clark,Today, I have a Zuckermann Flemish single, that I rebuilt in 1986. It had been put together with completely plain case and a painter friend decorated the soundbaord and case, and I restrung and voiced it. When I was 15 I built a Burton Flemish which I wish I still had, as my Zuckermann has a GG/BB short octave uip to d''' and the Burton was FF-f'''- almost as wide a range as harpsichords ever got. The Burton is in Belgium now and I really had fun with it in my school art class I made linoeum blocks and printed my own imitation Flemish "seahorse "paper. Both these have an 8' and a 4' but I would really prefer 2 X 8' stops. Someday, I hope there is a French double in my future, but overall I actually prefer the Flemish timbre- articulate as can be whereas the French sound can force too much of a lush, rich timbre onto the music.
I also built a Zuckermann small fretted clavichord in the mid -80's which is tonally excellent, but the range is only 45 notes and I plan someday to get a big Hass or Hubwert copy with at least GG to d'''.
What model Zuckermann did you have? Do you still have a harpsichord?
My next instrument purchase will be a Rodgers or Allen church organ. I took organ lessons at university- do you know the organist George Guest?- but I haven't played in years as I don't have anywhere to practice.
I was also reluctant to buy the Bach complete works- I have 100's of Bach LPs, 78's, and CD's with performaces, that like you, I accumulated over many years and several countries- I've lived in 4, and really I have 7 or 8 Golbergs, - perhaps 300 LPs of the organ works and actually nearly all the Cantatas- remember the old blue cloth box Archivs? Those performances include Emma Kirkby and some really good singers. But, with all the recordings I have, and the many, many recitals I've attended, I knew that there are quite a number of pieces by Bach I'd never heard and $107 must just be chalked up as an educational expense. I haven't kept a tally, but I would estimate I've heard 15-20 peices I think I've never heard or at least don;t remember hearing, plus I 'm rediscivering some pieces that revice mt interest that aren't heard often- like the Sonatas on harpsichord. Aalso, a different persepctive is always welcome- I never tire of new versions of the English Suites.
I agree completely that one gets a far more musically intense experience with the selected perrformances, but as I mentioned it's the knwoledge that I have access to everything- and the recordings are rally quite listenable with a few very nice performances.
I'd be more reluctant to buy a complete Beethoven as I'm far too particular abou the piano works, Symphonies, and the Quartets which are what I listen to mostly. Mahler, too of course I lke some conductors fro all of them- I can take Bernstein fro everything, but of course each Symphony is too indiviualistic to stay with only one performance or conductor.
A couple of complete sets though I would like to have: Grieg "Lyric Pieces", Medelssohn "Lieder ohne Worte", all the Haydn Quartets, and if the singers were really good, someday I'd like to hear every Schubert Lieder- that would be a big box too!
I had a history don who mentioned that he's almost never read Dickens, that he was "saving" him for his retirement!- and I thought then this was a stylish attiude, but I shouldn't like to wait- my dictum is, "Life is short and Art is big"!
Cheers,
Bambi B
...by the degree to which you've pursued this construction gig. I'm nowhere near so involved, stopping after one: a plain old Zimmerman from c. 1971. I'm told by people who know this stuff that it turned out sounding better than any other such kit they'd heard, which I ascribe simply to woodworking skills. I still have it, yes, but haven't approached it (or regulated it, or tuned it) for well over a decade.As to Bach, you are much more the collector than I imagined; under those circumstances the box set represents an expansion of an already intimate knowledge, from which base you are able to assess each of the box performances and not use them as your one-and-only.
> A couple of complete sets though I would like to have: Grieg "Lyric Pieces", Medelssohn "Lieder ohne Worte"... Those would be good choices. I believe the Schubert *has* been done!
Yes, and that's a good reason to buy such a set, especially at this sort of price.But at US $107 including shipping, roughly the cost of 7 full price CDs, I think it's just as valid a decision to buy this set if you're just starting out with Bach. You get to sample a bit of everything and then explore the areas that interest you in depth. You can go on to buy other performances of works that really move you in order to explore them further as well.
If I suggested to someone interested in a representative sample of Bach that they buy 1 disc each of the solo keyboard works, organ works, chamber music, cantatas, the violin concertos, and one of the Passions or the B Minor Mass, then they'd be up for close to the cost of this set for just that small sample if they purchased full price discs.
Usually I'd agree with you about the drawbacks associated with complete sets but in this case, at this price, it's probably just as good a buy for someone just getting into Bach as it is for someone with an already extensive collection of Bach including multiple performances of some works.
...*not* explore further because of dull performances.And especially with Bach, the "mathematical composer", the keyboard works can get pretty damn dull in the hands of many harpsichordists. Ditto the solo fiddle pieces.
Well, for a start, Bambi's comments seem to indicate that these are reasonable performances. That seems a strong point in favour here.It's possible that some people, hearing a 'dull performance' are going to recognise the quality of the music and look for a better performance. It's also possible that some people, hearing a good performance, are going to think "that's it" and not consider the possibility that there are equally good or better performances out there worth exploring. For a relative newcomer to Bach, both are possible.
I guess my feeling is that if there are some good performances in the set and the listener comes across those, then they're going to respond to them. If they find some other performances dull but the music interesting, they are going to be more likely to explore further performances of those particular works based on their other good experiences from the set.
One thing is certain. We can't save people from themselves. We all have made mistakes based on past experiences which were bad and unrepresentative of the music. In time we usually recover because we eventually do hear the music again, and we can and do change our views at times.
My fear, with a set this size, is simply that the newcomer is going to feel swamped and do something stupid like trying to listen to all of it in a too short period instead of simply picking a disc from a different aspect of Bach's work and sampling through the set that way at a reasonable pace, say a disc every 2 or 3 days or so, until they get a feel and appreciation for the music and can settle in for "a binge" every now and then. As someone who has, on occasion, purchased large sets (the Philips 32 LP set of Arrau's Beethoven sonata cycle does come to mind), I think the biggest problem people face with large sets is simply their size and learining that you don't have to justify the expenditure by trying to play through the whole set in a short time, or at some fixed pace.
David Aiken
Call it "hyper". I hear that a lot on harpsichord recordings especially and I find it extremely irritating. I can imagine an unwitting listener being put off forever.By the way, I find most, not all, Arrau performances to be on the, ah, former side.
Arrau may be on the dull side but that particular set was, when I purchased it, probably the equivalent of this Bach set as far as price goes. I think it provided good value.Harpsichord is a difficult instrument to record, and so is the classical guitar which I used to play (or try to play). I find many classical guitar recordings are recorded far too close, and I find that strange since as a player my ear for the sound of the instrument was formed by what I heard when I played and I was damn close to the instrument at those times. I think the difference is where my ears were, above and behind the instrument at about 90 degrees to the plane of the soundboard and directly above the side of the instrument. That changes the tone considerably. Placing the mic too close to the front of the instrument seems to accentuate the brightness and string sounds, probably in a way similar to what happens with the harpsichord.
I have a friend who loves classical guitar recordings and can't understand it when I say they don't sound realistic or natural. I think he has little experience of the live sound and what little he may have will have been in concert venues, possibly with a microphone being used, not in a normal sized room at close proximity.
I have similar problems with chamber music. A lot of the recordings are overly close and many concert performances are in rooms too large to be "chambers" and with acoustic characteristics better suited to symphonic music. Neither gives you the effect of a live performance in an appropriately sized room at the distance the audience would be at in such a room.
It seems they're usually too close, or too far away.You know what works for me? The sound the engineers achieve on Prairie Home Companion.
hand picked. Unlikely. That's the reason for this type of box set. Duh. I suppose you could (in fact, you just did) use this thread as another reason to be arrogant.
Well, Clark can defend himself if he feels like it, but I have all of Beethoven's works (99.9% of them just to be safe from attack) and did not obtain them by purchasing some complete set. In part because I couldn't afford a complete set when I started. And in part for reasons that Clark mentions. Plus I have several versions of some of the works (late quartets, etc). It is not so unusual a position (let alone an arrogant one) to want to pick and choose performaces or to simply amass a complete set of Bach or Beethoven or whoever over time.
It's a LOT easier to collect "all of Beethoven" (in fact, to hand pick them) than it is to do the same with Bach. In fact, I'll bet clark doesn't have HALF of Bach's output in "hand picked" versions. His post completely missed the point of the very reason one would purchase an "entire Bach". BTW, it's clarks TONE I find arrogant, not his point. His negativity (effectively, "Why bother?" or, worse, "Why would one EVER? (nose up in the air here) that gets me -- a pretentiousness type of reply to a genuinely enthusiastic initial post that is self-serving and...arrogant. In fact, he's SO arrogant, that he considers himself not to be -- the acid test.You may not see it, but he's an asshole (however smart an asshole). I truly dislike him.
a
Another arrogant act. Basking in one's own self -- hubris may be the cruelest fate.
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NT.
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cold and mathematical. What a mistake! So many of his works are warm and full of humanity. His emotional range is as immense as those of composer. It is unusual but, outside of perhaps Schweitzer, I can think of no public figure that has said Bach is his favorite.
tinear,I agree completely- the Cantatas alone should dispell the old "Cold and mathematical" label, and the Passions, Bmin Mass are tha rare combination of sensitivity and expression with a monumentality that I find sublime and timeless. Even the small scale keyboard pieces seem perfectly integrated and are such genius the mechanics of the composition falls away and one is immersed. For me, the "Goldberg Variations" are a kind of epic exploration of the full range of life and emotion.
Too, there is Bach's astounding mastery of counterpoint and the fugue which in those gaint arching structures has a powerful drive- who can resist jumping on for the ride with the Passacaglia and Fugue in Cmin?
I was interested in your comment that only Schweitzer among public figures expressed Bach as his favourite music, as I've long noticed that it more often the people that play an instrument that appreciate and like Bach- and of course Schweitzer played the organ works and wrote about Bach. It's non-musicians I think who are usually more dismissive. There are also fads and in the pre-Classical/early music world, there is desperate competition to "discover" unknown composers and little known works and become the famous specialist in order to stand out from the crowd.
But, anyone who thinks that Bach is or can be "worn out" by overplaying should send there soul out for restoration! And for expert soul rehabilitation at popular prices I recommend the "Goldberg Variations", followed by the "Bmin Mass".
Cheers,
x
from fear of poor performances and sonics, not to mention the quality of the CDs themselves. I am off to Amazon. Now I wonder about their Mozart? ummm
LongPlay,Of course, not every piece in a 155CD set can be the Earth-shakingly great and original, but the quality of the performances and recordings seems impossible at the price and I heard some performances in this set that I would place in the high quality category.
I ended up buying this set by actually wanting to find a set of the complete organ works as I knew I've missed and/or forgotten a number of pieces over the years. I have the complete organ works by Hurford and most of the other organ works on various recordings- I have about 600 organ LPs- but the organ works in particular are played and recorded quite selectively and one hears the same 10 or 12 all the time. But, looking around, complete organ works CD sets are mostly $60 -100 alone and as Fagius gives up nothing to other organists I like recording today, such as Rubsam, I couldn't resist the Brilliant Classics set.
When I purchased the Cach set, Amaonzon had a package deal for all of Bach and all of Mozart for I think $270. In retrospect I should have done both, but I wanted to focus on Bach. - And, I actually felt a bit cheap buying all this great music in "bulk" ! But, with hearing a good portion of the Bach set, that feeling is gone and I may well go through Mozart in the Autumn.
If you do buy the Bach set, I would enjoy reading your impressions. I find the idea of hearing just everything a very satisfying muscial experience- and relieves residual academic curiosity at the same time. The composers I really love all make me wish they had lived longer and written more and though he wrote so much it's calculated it would take a person 65 years only to copy it out, this applies to Bach too.
Cheers,
Bach catalog. What most surprised me at the time was that some of the very last of Bach's copmositions sounded like modern 20th century pieces. I look forward to rediscovering this music.
x
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