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Moest has been Principal Conductor of the Cleveland Orchestra since 2002 and is now in his fifth season. I heard the 2006 Carnegie Hall opening nite concert on PBS yesterday, and it was my first exposure to his work.The man's appeal as a purveyor of music escapes me completely. What I heard was someone obsessed with measure-by-measure tinkering with line and phrasing, almost to a maniacal degree. The orchestra sounded tentative and unsure of itself throughout, just keeping up with the constant and mostly amusical, pointless changes to note values, rhythms, balances and tempi. Moest has the annoying habit of finishing phrases and marking bar lines with diminuendi, favors soft dynamics over loud, holds back his brass frequently and severely, and puts up with a quacky oboe and slack ensemble. Orchestral tone is thin and muted. Every few bars he cuts loose with loud, straightforward playing, usually in finales,which is often completely at odds with what has gone before in terms of inflection and interpretation. Long lines and cohesion appear to be of no concern. I almost screamed in frustration just listening to him.
Perhaps inmates who have heard the man live, or more often than I have, can explain the charm which led to his appointment. Or not.
Follow Ups:
... and I can't say I agree with your observations, although I do at least partly agree with your conclusions about FWM. Cleveland still sounded like a top-tier orchestra, with many of the same players leading sections that have been among the best in the world for decades. Far from making pointless changes, Welser-Most was, if anything, a "non-interventionist" to a fault.I agree that "Frankly Worst than Most" was a less than ideal choice, but for entirely different reasons. I don't think he puts up with slack ensembles, and I didn't hear that myself. What I don't much care for is that his music-making is rather faceless, and you don't, in listening to him, get the sense that he has much to say about the music.
He has said that playing Haydn and Mozart is "like doing personal hygene," by which I'm sure he meant something like "a way of keeping the orchestra in good working order." But the phrase also bespeaks a sense of routine, of dutiful fulfillment of obligation, which is exactly what I felt hearing him playing that sort of stuff. Where was the joy? They also had some contemporary music on the bill, and it too sounded a bit like something that was done out of a sense of duty, and done well, but still lacking in passion.
Cleveland's still a great band, and it would take more than a couple years worth of a mediocre conductor to destroy the musicians they have. But I do fear that they're embarking on an era of routine professionalism, not great music-making.
.... Maazel and Dohnanyi....."....and puts up with a quacky oboe and slack ensemble."
So the Cleveland Orchestra (as of today) no longer sounds like the Cleveland Orchestra (pre-1985)....
What was performed, may I ask?
Program was Mozart G major PC (didn't catch the soloist's name), two of the Countess' arias from "Figaro" with a substitute German soprano (rather nervous and covered sounding but well acted), and three J. Strauss pieces including the "Fledermaus" overture.
...who've nicknamed him "Franz Worse-than-Most".I haven't heard him live myself, but I think you'll find many critics agree with you.
Cheers,Ivan
"Good friends, good books and a sleepy conscience: this is the ideal life." Mark Twain
correction!
Cheers,Ivan
"Good friends, good books and a sleepy conscience: this is the ideal life." Mark Twain
Now that Cleveland is recording again, I suppose all of us outside of Cleveland will get to hear what FWM and the orchestra have been up to.
Ivan Fischer conducting; Dvorak 8th and Hilary Hahn Dvorak Concerto. I'm an HH groupie. First chance to hear her live.
Haven't heard the Cleveland since about 1978, let you know how they sound.
My last visit was over 20 years ago. All the names I knew and grew up with were gone and the hall renovated.Ivan Fischer opened with a very enjoyable work, Symphonic Minutes by Dohnanyi and then Hillary Hahn played the Dvorak Violin Concerto which contains one melodic line, too many duets with the overly-loud orchestra and no cadenzas. Then Fischer liberace'd his way through the Dvorak Eighth. Hungarian schmalz aside, it was obvious that Fischer had spent his rehearsal time with the orchestra well and the sound was well balanced.
I made the 170 mile round trip really to hear Miss Hahn and was not disappointed. She is much more than just an athlete with a violin. And she really is an athlete, using her whole body as part of her technique of strength and grace without the mannered swayings of other artists. I only wished that she had played the Stravinsky. Or even one of The Four. IMHO, she is a once-in-a-generation virtuoso.
She performed a Sonata movement, I couldn't hear the title or composer, as a curtain call, chosen, perhaps, to show what she could do after the rather simple Dvorak.
With Szell's 'sounding board' removed from the back of the shell the acoustic is richer and more sonorous than before. It also makes it a bit harder to hear the pinpoint ensemble playing that Szell achieved. In other words, you can't hear as well whether the players are right together or not.
My seat was nearly perfect, just one seat away from dead center in the eleventh row of the main floor so I could hear the changes quite well. The seating of the orchestra has dramatically changed with the Violas front right and the Cellos where the woodwinds used to be with the woodwinds behind them. John Mack's Oboe, which used to be in front of Szell is now off to the right and the only visible reed player is Franklin Cohen on Clarinet. That's alright as he is a fine musician who played his leading parts in the Dohnanyi and Eighth Symphony with style, wonderful tone and technique.
The Cleveland Orchestra may no longer be "the best band in the land" as the New York Times wrote back in the 60's but still among the best.
I think many of the players that Maazel and Dohnanyi had are still there. I just looked at the roster not long ago. John Mack is no longer and passed away if I am not mistaken last year.
I couldn't say.But the list of those who made the Cleveland great and are now dead or retired is long:
Robert Marcellus, Clarinet
Myron Bloom, French Horn
Bernard Adelstein, Trumpet
Bernard Goldschmidt, Violin, ass't Concertmaster
Rafael Drurian, Violin, Concertmaster
John Mack, Oboe
Donald White, Cello
Merritt Dittert, Bass Trombone
Maurice Sharp, Flute
Clyde Duff, Tympani
Twyla Tharp, HarpThose are just from memory. I saw no familiar faces at all. The only name I recognised on the program was Joella Jones. Years pass and things change and it won't be too long before their students (I am one) are gone as well.
Hopeful signs for the orchestra and classical music were the youth of both many of the performers and the audience. And that the Ireland and Ratner families have taken a leading role in establishing an endowment and new business model for the orchestra.
Which brings me to an amusing thought I had while waiting for the light at Bellflower and Euclid on the way home only Clevelanders will appreciate: Jews turn left, Gentiles right (no, nothing to do with politics)!
Really? What was her era?The only Twyla Tharp I know is the modern dance choreographer/director.
I don't doubt what you say BTW. I still cherish the old Clevalnd recordings. I haven't heard them live in 30 years.
Can't explain how Alice Chalifoux became a choreographer.I shouldn't drink and Direct Drive.
'The beatings will continue until morale improves'
many of those guys are who taught me how an orchestra should sound. I think Jones husband and many of the string players remain. But the names you typed would be over 75 years old in most cases.I heard the Dohnanyi/Ashkenazy/Page/Jahja Ling/Michael Stern group often live. Pre renovation. And I heard the 2000 orchestra play the concert which opened the Carnegie Hall guest artists season that year, and which played on PBS (Schumann 2nd symph/Brahms PC 2 with Pollini). Good seats that time, about 15 rows back on the orchestra about 5 seats to the right of center. I thought the orchestra did well indeed, but have no comparison to a live Szell band except by records and WCLV archives.
"Now that Cleveland is recording again, I suppose all of us outside of Cleveland will get to hear what FWM and the orchestra have been up to."I must have missed it.... All I keep hearing is "no contract, no contract"....
here you go:
- http://www.cleveland.com/plaindealer/stories/index.ssf?/base/entertainment/1169890678197260.xml&coll=2 (Open in New Window)
I heard Barenboim work his way through book one of The Well Tempered Clavier at Carnegie Hall last Saturday. He's another musician whose popularity must remain one of the great imponderables. His tempos wandered aimlessly, driven by the inspiration of some obscure muse whose reasons appealed to neither the heart or mind. An absolutely pointless exercise, as far as I'm concerned. I was there because it was a part of my subscription series. Why the rest of the sold-out audience showed up, I have no idea.
nh
...when he was a young pianist. As he grew older, he became ponderous and pretentious. Why anyone thought to give him a baton to wield is beyond me.
Cheers,Ivan
"Good friends, good books and a sleepy conscience: this is the ideal life." Mark Twain
I agree.Other than he's a Really Big Name?
The younger Barenboim was something to behold. Even his conducting was more interesting back then.
But his conducting has been singularly uninspiring for some time now. I have been sorely disappointed everytime I've heard him conduct in Chicago - and that's a great band.
Orchestra search committees are mysterious things. Our local wise men in Indianapolis passed on Marin ALsop (who wanted the job badly, I know not why) to saddle us with the numbingly mediocre Mario Venzaga.
Oh well. Things worked out for Alsop. Not so much for us :-(
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