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In Reply to: Re: Whoomp and middle-C posted by kentaja@yahoo.com on April 14, 2007 at 16:31:31:
Yes. If you remove the rear screens & position the speakers about 2 feet from the rear wall male voice becomes a little fuller sounding. It's especially noticeable with older tube amps. If you raise the speakers far enough from the floor the problem lessens but so does the bass!Sandro
Follow Ups:
Well I must be honest. I have recently returned to listening to the ESL on their stock feet. Since I have several sets, I decided to try them on their feet again.I must say I am somewhat surprised at their performance on their stock feet. It has been many years since I have listened to them this way. I find them more satisfying this way than I remember.
I still find the vertical image height greatly reduced versus raised in the air. This is especially bothersome when listening to modern, close-mic vocals. The vocals just sound like they are coming from the floor. For instrumental only type music I find the vertical image height problems more tolerable.
What I find most interesting is the difference in bass performance. And I have to say the bass is substantially better when off the floor. Maybe a tad less extended, only slightly IMO, but much fuller, controlled with far more power/punch than on the floor. If anything maybe too much power and punch!
The constant hunting for the sweet spot while listening kind of drives me nuts, but if I just keep my butt still this is also less of a problem. I also find that they sound less loud on the floor versus in the air. The volume control is set higher to give me the same perceived loudness.
All-in-all I do like them on the stock feet, more so than I remember. I still think they are substantially improved, overall, when well off the floor. Image height, image size, soundstage size, etc., sounds better to me. But the things are so ugly on any stand I have ever had/seen versus the stock configuration.
For now, my main listening pair will be on the stock feet.
My quads are on the floor, I'm in a 13' equilateral triangle, and I still have to look up to see the vocalist - generally placed equidistant between speakers, 5' high, 2-3' forward from the speaker plane. Bass is set nicely back, with house/trance/electronica seems to come from 10' beneath the floor. I suspect your room. My room, without EQ, is completely useless - I could not live with Quads in my current residence without room EQ. If I could figure out how to post a picture on AA I would.Got $300? Just as an analysis tool, get a Behringer DEQ2496, see what EQ does for your room. No, it won't be transparent - but it will tell you a lot. If you want it to be transparent, do what I do - get an Alesis Masterlink ML9600 pro recorder - use it for A/D at 24/96 and stream that to the DEQ2496. It will be a lot closer to transparent - and you'll have a great vinyl recorder. Many on the vinyl forum with very good front ends confirm there's little if any difference in it's playback from the original vinyl source (as does stereophile confirm, see Alesis Masterlink ML9600 review on stereophile.com). If you have a remote pre, then you can A/B it.
Seriously, for $300 find out what's up with your room, then throw it away if you must. If you get the Alesis as well, you can listen to records in your car!
Sounds like we have a similiar set-up and I agree with your general description of the image height/position characteristics of the speaker. I find the perception of exact height with vocals, etc. varies quite a bit with the recording. For some I find the image height to be satisfying, but most not.I am all for room treatment, EQ, and do have the dbx 260, similiar to the Behringer and a fair amount of room treatment. I don't typically use the dbx unit. I purchased it mainly for a crossover and have played with the EQ functions, room anaylis, etc.
Most of my complaints are nits-to-pic with the ESL more than anything else. Set-up and working correctly it is a tough act to beat. I just want the darn thing to be perfect!
Heh-heh. I think most single pair enthusiasts at some point realize the positioning of the 57's, at least with respect to height & tilt, will always be a compromise. Some of my local customers prefer to look/listen down at the Quads because that sound is closest to their favorite listening seat in our orchestra's hall—1st balcony, center. Others want their speakers raised & tilted forward a bit because that more closely mimics the sound of their favorite venue. Then there are the stacked Quad affionados—with or without subs & tweeters—who mostly think the optimum height/tilt has already been achieved & so can disregard the issue entirely. Yup Kent, It's a jungle out there...Sandro
Yep. The ESL, on the stock feet, does an amazing job of reproducing the perspective of 1st balcony, center, my favorite spot in most halls and where I have my tickets. Provided the recording is up to snuff of course.For classical music you won't hear me complain too much with them on their feet. When it comes to pop/rock type stuff I can get a bit more grumpy about the whole thing.
Again, I quibble.
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