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In Reply to: Re: The undeniable KING of all dipoles posted by JP van Son on March 27, 2007 at 05:42:17:
U-1s with matching UB-1s. Courtesy of Brian Walsh.Or maybe a four panel ProStat array? :)
Follow Ups:
Does this massive system still have a sweet spot? If so, how big? What type of amplification are you using?
The system does image. As for electronics, you'd have to see and hear for yourself :-)
Best regards,
hence acknowledging Brian Walsh for the pic. It belongs to a user in the Chicagoland area. FWIW, you may see a listing and pic of my system by following my moniker. I do not have the separate subs.I can tell you that the U-1s have a very large listening area as compared with other stats. Because they have seven flat facets spread across a 90 degree arc, one does not find the "head-in-a-vise" situation typically experienced with electrostats. I lived with that situation for nearly thirty years using various Acoustat models.
Regarding morricab's comment about a giant mono source, I doubt that is the case with these. The two larger inner units are the UB-1 subwoofers that operate solely below 50 hz or so. All of the imaging cues are determined by the outer full range U-1s.
Those are them. Mighty impressive and are near the top of my "must hear some day" list.
Hello,you do "asume" too much ;-) Next time your in Germany your welcome to give them a go. Rest asured, that every Soundlab was considered before buying this speaker. The comments on limitations, design concepts, integration are fine on speculation but highy inacurrate in real live.
Feel free to send me your number if you wish to learn about this speaker, its much nicer to get fact from the design team and a owner then from some hifi forum on the net where people who could never buy, hear, audiotion this system in the first place.
Holy surface!! That's a lot of bass panel surface area for an electrostat. I can imagine the gentle breeze from air being moved in a room like that. (=:
The membrane doesn't move all that much because it doesn't have to in order to achieve the displacement. If you want to blow out a lit candle hold it up to a port on a small floor standing or stand mounted speaker playing music with some dynamic bass at high volume. For example, Merlins are capable of this.I've heard that system on many occasions. While it is capable of playing at reasonably high volume, he plays music at relatively normal levels. It is one of the few systems capable of putting a virtual grand piano or choir in the room.
I have arranged visits to the owner's home for customers serious about Sound Labs.
Best regards,
is an hour or so from here. Roger West said the response is hard to measure but was estimated to extend to perhaps 8 Hz.
Best regards,
Considering the fact that the Grand bass panel does 17.8Hz when driven Fullrange. The resolution, unlimited dynamics, fully active system with no integration issues i would suggest that some would find one of the 20 pairs in existance and try one instead of "asuming" things that they dont know. Thats all i am gonna say about this.
rw
the panel has to move a lot less, stays more linear and extends the range to 6.5Hz without drop off and the system can do dynamics over 120db at 4m distance. Nevermind the main ribbon doing 250Hz to 9KHz witha non-bend curved panel and no transformers in the way of the signal!
that the company that pioneered the use of full range ribbons decided to abandon that concept and use cones for their statement product.Lordy, 120 db? I value my hearing too much. I listen in the 70 to 80 db range with peaks in the 90s like I hear in symphony concerts.
Non-bend curved panels? You must be thinking about the curved panels in Martin-Logans. Sound Labs does not use curved panels. The panel facets are completely flat.
You are assuming that there are problems? Those speakers are probably one of, if not the best, ever made.
I highly value coherency. You don't achieve very well with hybrid systems.To what other speaker systems have you compared your listening to the Grands?
The man who was over is a PURE FULLRANGE Electrostatic fan, and to him the Grand beats it in resolution, dynamics, soundstaging, imaging etc.. and is the same for integration. You asume what you dont, and cannot know! Please stop that, either fly to an owner and try the speaker, do not "asume" things.
I used Acoustats like he has for twenty seven years and know their limitations well.My opinion is based upon hearing a number of ribbon hybrids over the past twenty five years such as the Infinity IRS, Genesis One, and the Nola Grand Reference. Great bass, but not entirely coherent with the ribbons. To each his own.
I trust they're great speakers, but I would most likely switch the woofers off.
It sounds like the Diva is nearly a match for the big IRS
- http://www.apogeespeakers.com/reviews/a_search_for_the_ultimate_speaker_bestofaudio.htm (Open in New Window)
you have not heard them, dont understand (because you dont know)the technolgy in this speaker and "asume" too much.
When was the last time you heard U-1/U-1Bs?You try too hard to impress others. Relax. I was the same as you twenty five years ago. :)
This aint about a U1, i dont own U1's ;-) When was the last time you heard an Apogee Grand? I am only here because Muralman made a link to the "Apogee Forum" and i feel like people with no knowledge in this speaker are making comments on it. I shouldnt care, but i do.I would like for people to only post facts from first hand experience and no specualtion. Otherwise i have no interest in this forum.
I have heard several of the larger Apogee designs over the years. No, not the Grands nor the Full Ranges. But I have a pretty good idea what they do from listening to the others. I've heard many other planar speakers over the years, from Genesis 1s to Nola Grand Exotica References to Martin Logan Statement E2s.Like E-Stat, I owned Acoustat 2+2s in the past. I've also owned Quad ESLs (still do) and Audiostatics, and I currently own Dayton Wrights in addition to Sound Lab U-1s.
As mentioned in another post of mine to this thread, I've heard the U-1/UB-1 system pictured in E-Stat's post many times, so I know the capabilities.
The Sound Labs remain my reference by a significant margin. I say this not because I'm a dealer, but rather because I purchased the speakers as a consumer and because I believed in the speakers and the company so much , not the other way around, I asked to become a dealer for them. I apologize to readers if this sounds self promotional. But when you find something that makes you happy and lets you relax with your favorite music hour after hour, you stay with it.
Tim, you might want to take a few deep breaths :-) I don't think anyone's trying to attack you or Apogee. I promise if you come to Chicago I'll treat you to dinner and will try to arrange a demo of the U-1/UB-1 system for you, in addition to letting you hear the system here. You'd be a better person for it, I assure you. I enjoy sharing my passion for good music reproduced well.
Best regards,
I do like Soundlabs, but i considered them and bought the Grands which is MIGHTY differet from a FR extremely different "sound wise" from a Diva :-)
be a dealer?Rest asured, i considered Soundlabs, and not the U1 but the Prostat ;-)
since they do not use the heavy spiked steel frame responsible for the U-1s bass response. Similarly, the 45 degree panels would likely not work as well as the 90 degree panels in your room.
Where and when did you hear the ProStats? Or at least I assume you heard the ProStats...
Best regards,
I must assume that you did not audition the ProStats. Under such circumstances, I see no rational reason for your remarks about them.
Best regards,
Each of us has a different set of experiences and with differing preferences. To each his own. I first heard the Infinity IRS ribbon hybrid before you were born.So, now that you've heard the Sphinx amps, are all the Krells going on ebay tomorrow?
The Krell is already sold :-) IRS Betas are nice but your asuming that the Grand is 3 ribbons on a subwoofer....and well....your wrong if you do :-)
I was referring to The Infinity Reference System....asuming that the Grand is 3 ribbons on a subwoofer....and well....your wrong if you do.
For clarification, just how many ribbons does the Grand have atop its subwoofer?
It has two ribbons and a advanced planar magnetic with motion sensors that synchronize the woofer panel with the subwoofer. Like i said, write me with your number and i will glady explain the system to you.
two ribbons and a planar atop the two woofers.Back in 1979, the IRS used servo controls on its twelve woofers driven by three kilowatts of amplification. Great bass. Great midrange and top. But it sounded like two speakers.
And because of that the Grand suffers from this too right?
Having heard several state-of-the-art dipole ribbon/ monopole dynamic woofer hybrids over the past thirty years, I find their differing radiation patterns less coherent than what is possible with a single driver. Concert drums are particularly demanding in that regard since their range spans across multiple drivers in most systems.Every speaker system has tradeoffs. All of them. We make our choice based upon which one(s) most closely fit our preferences.
Good luck on your new amplifier choices. You might want to try some tubes on the mid/top.
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